Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?

H2SO4_guy
H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I just lost an Exeltech XP-1100 and have replaced it with an Outback VFX-3648. I usually buy from NAWS, but couldn't resist a brand new factory sealed in the box Outback VFX-3648 for $1246.00 delivered with a standard 5 year warranty. It will be hooked to 2 different sets of batteries via a Blue Sea 350 amp DC switch (From NAWS). The first set of batteries (C and D KCT-450) are 48 volts of flooded lead-calcium and are rated at 450 AH @ the 8 hour rate. (I don't know what the 20 hr rate is, it does not appear to be published) The second set of batteries are a single string of 8-D's for about 225 AH at the 20 hour rate.

I intend to get the Mate 3, Hub, and battery monitor as funds permit, but wanted to know if the Midnite Classic (From NAWS) will talk to the Outback gear such as the Outback charge controller would, or would it be better to also get an Outback MX-60, FM-60, or FM-80. It is all ethernet, just didn't know if they would communicate.

Can you use a standard switch instead of Outback's hub, or is it something special. I have a spare switch, just didn't know if it would work with Outback's ethernet stuff. Can the Midnite Classic use a standard ethernet switch?

I am going to have to run the VFX-3648 in the default mode if it will work until I can get a mate to program it.

Thanks in advance,

Skip
12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?

    Hi H2..,

    Sounds like a very good deal on the OB inverter.

    Firtst, there is a MN Forum:
    http://midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php

    Looked at the member list, did not see your identical moniker there, but you may have a different name there ...

    Believe that the Classic will not intrepret the FNDC Absorption End command, believe that this was asked on the MN Forum, and the answer was NO.

    MN is working on a Shunt-based Absorption terminator, to be released fairly soon.

    EDIT: The MX-60 will not integrate with the FNDC to terminate Absorb. Personally, would recommend avoiding the FNDC at this point. From what I read, there are performance issues with it. These may be fixed with new FirmWare, but this is an expensive combo, and some are disappointed with its performance (I have NO experience with the FNDC). Some members here are using the FNDC, and can comment further, here is a Thread on the OB Forum on FNDC issues:
    http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5787

    You may well find that the charge parameters of each of your battery banks to be different, such that "just" switching between the two banks will not yield optimum recharge of each bank. AND, if it is not possible to set the Inverter's charge voltages without the Mate, you may be disappointed. Perhaps you have no plans to use the Inverter to charge either bank, in which case its Charger defaults do not really apply.
    Hope that the 8D batteries are not sealed.
    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
    · Share on Twitter
  • unicornio
    unicornio Solar Expert Posts: 217 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?

    just my humble opinion, (I really love midnite) ... but since you have an outback inverter (considered like one of the best in the world,... and FM charge regulators, and all other components of Outback also have a deserved reputation) I would still completing the installation with equipment from the same manufacturer, especially for the reason of the integration and communication of all the system.

    regarding FlexNet DC, I disagree with Vic, since the real problem of FNDC is to reach a properly set up in your batteries, and this it's not about a day ... (if you did not lie to it, it will not lie to you) and once you go slowly tuning it, you can get a definitive resolve it, and that you have a battery monitor really powerfull, accurate and reliable ...

    the mate3 also been a step forward and you could say that is one of the most advanced in the industry, in the remote information and data aquisition about our power plant ... you can see the "monitor solar" in my signature, that you can obtained from data provided by the mate3, that I think is highly recommended ...

    it is just my humble opinion
    · Share on Twitter
  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?

    In my experience, the Midnite Classic and Outback inverters play very well together even though there is no direct communication between them. They both look at battery voltage and therefore communicate indirectly through that. Voltage readings can be offset so as to be identical.

    (I believe that forum member stephendv has been able to talk to the Midnite CC through modbus to communicate with his SMA system so there is no reason that the same could not be done with the FNDC - though that takes some fairly serious competency with modbus, serial interfacing, etc.)


    I find my FNDC is a very valuable tool to monitor battery SOC, show more accurate DC amp draw and voltage info and since I am grid tied, it is invaluable in allowing me to precisely control selling to the grid based on charge parameters I control (end amps specifically).

    I have seen no performance issues. As far as I'm aware most people who have had issues with it have not set it up correctly (which is vital with any good battery meter). I'm not sure what performance issues Vic is referring to...

    Once Midnite releases their shunt based battery monitor it will no doubt be a quality product and allow ending of absorb based on end amps - but will be able to communicate with Outback products ????

    I disagree with Unicornio in that I think the Classic is a far superior CC than the Outback FM for lots of reasons and the inability to not directly communicate with the Outback inverter is a secondary, less important issue.

    All just opinions of course!:D
    · Share on Twitter
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?
    mtdoc wrote: »
    I'm not sure what performance issues Vic is referring to...

    check out the outback forum link that Vic provided in the 2nd post in this thread. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
    · Share on Twitter
  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?

    Thanks to everyone for the great replies! The Outback solution seems to have a bug that can affect up to about 10% SOC, so it is probably best to wait for rev. 2.0 or something like that. Can't wait for the Midnite version.

    Vic... The 8-D batteries are flooded, and 3 different brands, but they are playing nice with each other. They run a 24 year old 5.4 cuft freezer (I know, I know, it takes almost 2 KWH per day, but it is on loan for no charge) and they run misc lights and sometimes power tools too. It is a single string at 48 VDC. I got the 8-D batteries for $60 each or less with trade in and for that little I can gamble, but they are very strong.

    Each battery pack has it's own charge controller so I don't have to change charging parameters and I can switch how many panels go to each Charger based on need. It also allows my to have a great deal of redundency in case of failure. The new Outback inverter is wonderful, but it does make an audiable hum, but that won't matter as it is in a seperate electrical room with at least R19 in every wall. Thanks again for all of the help, I learn so much here.

    Skip
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
    · Share on Twitter
  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?
    vtmaps wrote: »
    check out the outback forum link that Vic provided in the 2nd post in this thread. --vtMaps


    Oh - right. Yes - that's an issue that's bounced around the Outback forums for a while. It's not a bug it's a feature! ;)

    Seriously though - as Steve Higgins from Outback states "The Flexnet DC is doing what is programmed to do. The question is should it be done this way. "

    It is a bit of a glitch and certainly should be better addressed by Outback but hardly a fatal flaw IMO - a fact attested to by the thousands using FNDCs successfully every day.

    Of course - nothing beats measuring SGs if you have flooded batteries.......

    It seems the unfortunate reality that almost all the RE companies have their short comings when it comes to working all the bugs out of their more sophisticated products. Even Midnite Solar is constantly battling the demons in their firmware updates (but doing a good job of it!).
    · Share on Twitter
  • unicornio
    unicornio Solar Expert Posts: 217 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: Will a Midnite Calssic Talk to an Outback VFX-3648?

    yeah ... it is inevitable that the configuration is very tedious and take some time to be as reliable, the battery is a enigmatic device and the only way to know is if intimacy happens a lot with her! ... hehehehe

    but this is something about the battery, that meets all battery monitors ... other than that are the measures of charges/loads by three shunts, and statistics and account status ... these data are always real .. ., after all, just as we need to know if our deficit is high or low, and as interest will cost ... for me, is more than enough to know how everything goes and if (and when) I have to put the genset up ...

    and although FlexNet DC is not updatable, I trust, as always happens from outback,... so that if he had to do an update, they take care to send you a new one for free, as has always happened so far ...

    I am very happy to have the help of FLEXnet DC and like very much the monitor integration throughout the system, which is run its components intelligently, and I think this is important ...

    Ideally, when the communication and connection were standardized, something that will happen some day and then if we choose each component separately and build our perfect solar power plant, like hi-fi equipment, right? ....

    Meanwhile I'm also very aware of the new developments of midnite, like inverters and others, as in all other systems in place to have a complete equipment "all-midnite" that will be an example of "hi-end" on solar energy industry products and solutions...
    · Share on Twitter

Categories