An observation

Cariboocoot
Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
It's accurate to say I've dealt with quite a few solar power systems on this forum and in real life.

I've noticed that people who are new to solar and are somewhat lacking in electrical knowledge (as in don't even know Ohm's law, say) are inevitably drawn to the low-end equipment; the build-it-yourself panel schemes, discounted defective units, no-name controllers, low-buck inverters, and bargain batteries.

I've also noticed that people with a lot of experience in solar and electronics (as in have a degree in electrical engineering, say) inevitably bypass all that and go straight for the top-end, brand name goods that only need a bit of wiring up to get it to work.

Now, why do you suppose that is? ;)
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: An observation
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    I've also noticed that people with a lot of experience in solar and electronics (as in have a degree in electrical engineering, say) inevitably bypass all that and go straight for the top-end, brand name goods that only need a bit of wiring up to get it to work.

    Now, why do you suppose that is? ;)

    Probably because people with degrees in electrical engineering have high paying jobs and can afford top-end goods. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,623 admin
    #3
    Re: An observation

    One way to think of the issue is hours of operation... If you want AC power 10-24 hours per day, that is ~3,650 hours to 8,760 hours of operation per year.

    A typical car averages around 15,000 miles per year, and around 35 MPH average for City/Highway driving or:
    15,000 miles / 35 mph = 428 hours of operation per year

    The off grid power system (solar, inverters, batteries, generators) can easily rack up 10x to 20x as many hours of operation per year vs the "car" that we hold as a standard of reliable operation (and vehicles are much more reliable these last couple of decades vs anything made before).

    That is why many folks head to the expensive equipment right off the bat for a true off grid (or grid tied) system vs the something you can purchase at Canadian Tire or eBay.

    For a weekend cabin where an off grid power failure is not a huge hit in life style--vs an off grid home 4 hour drive from anywhere--Less expensive power systems can be worth a try.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • paulskirocks
    paulskirocks Solar Expert Posts: 84 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: An observation

    Well, it applies to everything, not just solar... The average person is a mindless consumer...
    · Share on Twitter
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: An observation

    A lot of it could well be from the questionable advertising used by many fly by night and semi-fly by night outfits that basically claim all you need do is send them some money, in fact, far less money than the cost of a properly working system, and all your electrical needs will be provided. Along the lines of sticking a $300 panel on the roof and live free forever. Unfortunately, for many people new to the whole "alternate" energy thing, these convincing adds that sound too good to be true and "warn" potential buyers there's no need to "waste" money buying better quality equipment, are often the only things they've ever heard of, or read about before they come to this forum. Unfortunately, by the time they do come here, it's already too late and they're here because they're having trouble and looking for answers.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: An observation
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    A lot of it could well be from the questionable advertising used by many fly by night and semi-fly by night outfits that basically claim all you need do is send them some money, in fact, far less money than the cost of a properly working system, and all your electrical needs will be provided. Along the lines of sticking a $300 panel on the roof and live free forever. Unfortunately, for many people new to the whole "alternate" energy thing, these convincing adds that sound too good to be true and "warn" potential buyers there's no need to "waste" money buying better quality equipment, are often the only things they've ever heard of, or read about before they come to this form. Unfortunately, by the time they do come here, it's already too late and they're hear because they're having trouble and looking for answers.

    Bingo!
    Correct answer #1. :D
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: An observation
    paulskirocks wrote: »
    Well, it applies to everything, not just solar... The average person is a mindless consumer...


    If we can amend that to "they don't research before they buy" we'll call it correct answer #2. :D
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: An observation
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Probably because people with degrees in electrical engineering have high paying jobs and can afford top-end goods. --vtMaps


    Bzzz! Nope; this ole boy doesn't have any high-paying job at all. But I still wouldn't waste one $ on equipment I know isn't any good. ;)
    · Share on Twitter
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: An observation

    Cheap is cheap and you usually get what you pay for. It is disturbing when you see where a Name Brand Company that doesn't want to do their warranty work and your own experience bears it out. When a Name Brand Company brags on a feature they don't even have in their Product, just so they can say " Me Too " . In the disposable world we are in, it's easier to buy some things by the dozen and pitch the rejects out.
    · Share on Twitter
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: An observation

    With knowledge come experience,
    With experience comes knowledge.

    A Prof at University used to say about the end product we were trying to get from the forests we managed,
    "Quality is always Quality."

    His little story was about Napoleon, ordering the French (Gov.) Foresters to 'grow me Oak for shipbuilding'.
    So the foresters set about doing just that and 150 years or so later, the foresters went to the government and said ''We have your oak now, what do you want to do with it?"

    the thing is, it was massive trees suitable for boat keels, as originally wanted, but now was to be turned into fine veneer for fine furniture... the value always remains with quality...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: An observation
    westbranch wrote: »
    His little story was about Napoleon, ordering the French (Gov.) Foresters to 'grow me Oak for shipbuilding'.
    So the foresters set about doing just that and 150 years or so later, the foresters went to the government and said ''We have your oak now, what do you want to do with it?"

    Thus setting the standard for government planning the world over! :p
    · Share on Twitter
  • Nila
    Nila Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: An observation
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    It's accurate to say I've dealt with quite a few solar power systems on this forum and in real life.

    I've noticed that people who are new to solar and are somewhat lacking in electrical knowledge (as in don't even know Ohm's law, say) are inevitably drawn to the low-end equipment; the build-it-yourself panel schemes, discounted defective units, no-name controllers, low-buck inverters, and bargain batteries.

    I've also noticed that people with a lot of experience in solar and electronics (as in have a degree in electrical engineering, say) inevitably bypass all that and go straight for the top-end, brand name goods that only need a bit of wiring up to get it to work.

    Now, why do you suppose that is? ;)

    Hi Mate,

    Im more of the first kind .. ,
    I have a no-name charge controller that i basically purchased from a factory in china literally.. atleast i know where they make and how they test,etc.
    and I have cheap high watt panels, and low buck inverter and bargain battery but know the Ohms law! and basic electronics.

    My reason for going with all low-end is because I was concerned that I could do one or two things wrong and easily kill battery/inverter or just about every equipment in the building.

    So If i am going to lose everything why lose even more together with high-end electronics, just learn it first with cheap stuff and then replace things one by one when required and as we gather experience.

    example , If i blew out a Tristar mppt, i would lose like 480$, but my chinese controller will set me back only 100$.

    I paid less than just half the money for entire setup than I was quoted by companies here who were trying to rip us off.I got everything here at dealer's price as our business is in a related field ;) I guess its a huge bargain and can learn more this way without hurting us too much.

    I could be wrong , time will tell lol.
    · Share on Twitter
  • stevehull
    stevehull Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭
    #13
    Re: An observation
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    It's accurate to say I've dealt with quite a few solar power systems on this forum and in real life.

    I've noticed that people who are new to solar and are somewhat lacking in electrical knowledge (as in don't even know Ohm's law, say) are inevitably drawn to the low-end equipment; the build-it-yourself panel schemes, discounted defective units, no-name controllers, low-buck inverters, and bargain batteries.

    I've also noticed that people with a lot of experience in solar and electronics (as in have a degree in electrical engineering, say) inevitably bypass all that and go straight for the top-end, brand name goods that only need a bit of wiring up to get it to work.

    Now, why do you suppose that is? ;)

    In response, I would ask you why people buy lottery tickets, go to Vegas, etc. The allure of winning at no cost . . . (human nature).
    · Share on Twitter
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: An observation
    paulskirocks wrote: »
    Well, it applies to everything, not just solar... The average person is a mindless consumer...

    Well educated people tend to want to make informed decisions. I know I did much research and weighted the costs VS implementations. Usually the Cadillac price is not the best value but then again neither is the Yugo price.
    · Share on Twitter
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: An observation

    One of the things that an engineering or science degree will give you is a feeling for what cannot work. Perpetual motion might seem possible to you if you've never studied thermodynamics. I've had folks accuse me of not having an open mind because I won't accept the possibility that a car could run on water as a fuel source. The problem with having an open mind is that if your mind is too open, your brains fall out.
    · Share on Twitter
  • paulskirocks
    paulskirocks Solar Expert Posts: 84 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: An observation

    Well, I don't have any degree, because I dropped out of college after 4 years... However, I have always tried to be a critical thinker, and educate myself in any interest I have... Which, of course, is why I'm here...
    · Share on Twitter
  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: An observation
    ggunn wrote: »
    One of the things that an engineering or science degree will give you is a feeling for what cannot work. Perpetual motion might seem possible to you if you've never studied thermodynamics. I've had folks accuse me of not having an open mind because I won't accept the possibility that a car could run on water as a fuel source. The problem with having an open mind is that if your mind is too open, your brains fall out.


    Right ON !!! I've been accused of the same thing ! However, my brain is slowly ooozing out anyway.

    bLoB
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: An observation
    boB wrote: »
    Right ON !!! I've been accused of the same thing ! However, my brain is slowly ooozing out anyway.

    bLoB

    It's that Anno Domini stuff, boB; it'll get you no matter what. :p
    · Share on Twitter
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: An observation

    well a small part of this statement is right...

    "So If i am going to lose everything why lose even more together with high-end electronics, just learn it first with cheap stuff and then replace things one by one when required and as we gather experience."

    the part that is is that most of us here try to recommend going for the cheapest batteries one can get as dollars-to-doughnuts the first set (or 2) will become dunners...
    the rest of the pieces are not always top-of - line but the best suited to what the OP wants,... but not junk

    end of rant..
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
    · Share on Twitter
  • TnAndy
    TnAndy Solar Expert Posts: 249 ✭✭
    #20
    Re: An observation

    I think the old saying "fools and their money are soon parted" applies.
    · Share on Twitter

Categories