Hello! Need 50kW GT (OG?) system Help in Albania

Hi to everyone.
This is my first post.
I strumbeled upon this great forum via google while i was searching for knowledge about off the grid solar systems.

So far it has been very helpful but i was wondering if any of you guys could point me in the right direction here.

I live in Albania(south-eastern Europe) and i was looking to build myself a 50 kw off the grid solar system for my home and my business...(same building)
So far i have no clue where to begin with and reading your about your projects has shed some light on the matter.

My question is:Could any of you point me to a professional website or engeneer that could help me out in building this system?

Albania right now is in the middle of an energy crysis and things don't look like they will get any better so if you help me out i would be very greatful.

Thanks in advance!

P.S:sorry if i posted this on the wrong section of the forum...

Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hello! Need 50kW GT system Help in Albania

    Welcome to the forum.

    If you're looking for an engineer to work with you it would probably be best to find someone a bit nearer to where you live. Most of the forum members are in the U.S., a few are in Europe. There's differences between the two places in terms of equipment availability, power requirements, and of course local codes.

    I have to say that a 50kW off-grid system is very large indeed and will cost quite a lot to achieve. Do you have grid power? How expensive is it? Is it reliable?

    We can at least help you out in a general way so that you know what to be looking for, and looking out for.
  • Fabi28
    Fabi28 Registered Users Posts: 2
    Re: Hello! Need 50kW GT system Help in Albania

    Thank you for the quick response.
    I have grid power and it is costs like 0.7$ for 1 kw/h
    My main concern is that it is not reliable at all and the experts say the price is going to doubble untill 2014.
    That is why i am looking for an off grid solution but i need at least some knowledge so i know what to look for.
    Thank you
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Hello! Need 50kW GT system Help in Albania

    I have moved your post to our Grid Tied forum and added to the Title to make it clearer what you are looking for...

    I cannot help you with sources in your region of the world (we have some Europeans here that may be able to help).

    However, just to make it clear that you are asking for the correct solution for your energy problem....

    First, Grid Tied solar will only supply power to your building when the utility/grid power is up and running. If you lose utility power, the GT Inverter will shut down and you will have no power.

    If you want backup power, you will need an Off Grid Inverter or Hybrid Inverter (does both Grid Tied and Off Grid power). And you will need a battery bank (expensive, maintenance, replace battery bank ever ~5-15 years, etc.).

    With a Grid Tied system, the utility still supplies the power, and the GT Inverter just "pushes" power back up the AC lines in your shop (to power local equipment) and back out the meter (turning the meter backwards) if the GT system is generating more power than you need (for all the world, the AC utility looks like a giant AC battery bank--Not much different than how your vehicle works with a generator/alternator, charge controller, battery bank, and loads).

    Also, GT Systems only make sense if they are "legal" for your location (utility and local building code authority) allow it--And the utility gives you "good rates" when you "sell" the power back to the utility. In many countries, they have passed laws that make utilities support "net metering" (meter turns backwards or other billing schemes) that are "good deals" for the customer with a solar power system--part of the green energy movement. Most utilities will not allow a GT Solar System to be installed because they lose money unless the local laws allow/force them to do it (and allow some sort of subsidy).

    If you really need an Off Grid or Hybrid Inverter system (plus battery bank)--Such a system is not cheap--In the US, "Hybrid" systems (GT + Emergency backup from battery bank) will cost about 4-5x the cost of utility power. A pure off grid system will cost around 10x-20x or more the price of utility power (really rough numbers). Pure Grid Tied systems can be similar in cost to utility power or even a bit cheaper (in California, we have very high utility rates for people that use a lot of electricity and we can save a lot of money with GT systems).

    For a GT system--There is not a lot of planning required on your part--A place to put the panels and GT Inverter(s), and a large enough electric panel/distribution transformer from the utility to support the power back feed (a GT system may feed 3x the peak power you use back to the utility--I.e., 8 hours of sun vs 24 hours per day of energy usage--so you need the right size electrical service to support the back feed).

    Also, in the US, commercial electric customers pay two parts (or more) for their electric bill... About 1/2 is the $/kWH pricing. Another 1/2 is the "rent" for the big transformer and wiring to support your "15 minute" maximum load. In many cases, when solar GT is added, a commercial customer will have to pay more for the "rent" portion of their bill if they have a large solar GT system (gets real complex real fast).

    Anyway--That is a quick overview of GT/OG solar power... If you are looking for more reliable power (off grid/emergency backup)--Then you are looking at a much more involved system design as your solar power + battery bank + inverter must supply 100% of your loads at times--So you have to know what machinery/computers/etc. you will be running during a "black out" and size the equipment to support those loads reliably.

    In many cases, for emergency power, a "UPS" (uninterruptable power supply--Basically a battery bank + AC inverter + AC battery charger) will supply power to your critical systems for ~15 minutes / until the backup generator starts up. That is, many times, the more cost effective solution.

    And lastly, you must have lots of direct sun for solar power to work... I do not know about your region--But much of Central Europe is known for very dark winters--where it is difficult to get a lot of solar power. If you have shading/dark winters/etc... (shade on solar PV panels just cuts 1/2 the power or more--depending). Solar Power may not be an answer for that location (and even if you still find off grid solar a possibly solution--You will probably still need to look at a backup genset for power during periods of bad weather--A "typical" solar power system will only have enough batteries for 1-3 days of "backup/no sun" power.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Hello! Need 50kW GT system Help in Albania

    To give you a rough idea of power costs here (real rough numbers based on US costs, ignoring any taxes/rebates may affect end pricing):
    • $0.10 to $0.40+ per kWH grid power
    • $0.10 to $0.30+ per kWH GT Solar Power
    • $0.45-$0.45+ per kWH for "Hydbrid" Solar power (GT+OG)
    • $1.00 to $2.00+ per kWH for OG (Off Grid) solar power

    Note the batteries have a ~5-20 year life (cheap batteries 2-5 years, expensive forklift/traction batteries can be 20+ year life--if well taken care of). For "electronics" (inverters, charge controllers, etc.)--I would plan on 10+ year life.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Hello! Need 50kW GT system Help in Albania

    When you say "50 kW" do you mean the size of the array, the size of the inverters, or the daily load (which would be in kW hours - the "hours" is very important)?

    Let me show you what I mean:

    50 kW hours per day off grid.
    To get that you'd need a 48 Volt system with at least 2,334 Amp hours of battery. This would be expensive (2 Volt cells or forklift batteries). At U.S. new prices you're looking at $20,000.
    To recharge that you'd need approximately 15kW of solar panels and at least three charge controllers. Over here that would be another $20,000.
    To utilize that as AC? That would depend on the loads' peak power, and what Voltage & frequency is required. Don't be surprised by another $10,000 expense here.
    Then there is the miscellaneous equipment like mounting hardware, wiring, circuit protection, battery monitor, et cetera. And installation costs.

    What this says is that your first best step is to try and reduce your power consumption as much as possible; less power used, less power that needs to be supplied, smaller system, less money.