new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connectors

Re: new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connector

it seems to me that interconnected ground is illegal. somebody got paid off.

Re: new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connector

niel wrote: »

it seems to me that interconnected ground is illegal. somebody got paid off.

I don't think it's illegal. Zep has been doing that sort of thing for a while now, and Dynoraxx is getting ready to introduce a module-to-module grounding system as well. There is a concern that if you remove a module you have broken the ground for a section of the array but there are ways to minimize that. For example, you can ground both ends of a row so that you would have to remove two non-contiguous modules to break the ground to any section of the array.

At least one major module company I talked to at SPI is looking at becoming totally frameless in the next couple of years in order to lower costs and avoid the grounding issue completely.

Integrators are scrambling to find ways to lower racking costs, since module prices are now so low. Racking companies are in turn scrambling to deliver solutions which lower materials and labor costs. It's gotta happen.

Re: new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connector

Look like a DYIer dream. Electrician needs just a couple hours to do the interconnect setup and permitting. Easy install.
Me thinks I might make a trip to Lowes.

Re: new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connector

I am leery about these custom integrated systems. You are stuck buying only from Westinghouse. At least the competitor ZEP solar has several module makers using their frame design. Either one limits you to buying these certain modules. I think the money you will save buying standard modules (have you seen the latest Canadian Solar prices?) will outway any cost savings from the installation, etc. Plus, I'm a lot more confident I an support and replace the standard modules vs the custom ones. Who knows who is going to survive an industry shakeout? Westinghouse is already being sued by ZEP for infringement of the patent on this module mounting system. Plus the whole issue of integrating the inverter into the module. No, thanks. I'll spend the extra time up front installing a conventional system if I can avoid support problems down the road. One of the good things about the Solar business, is that when you walk away from an install, you can be relatively confident you won't be coming back except to visit with your new customer/friend about how great solar is. Actually, I have a lot more support issues than I ought to have (yes, this means you - Xantrex, SolarEdge, and even SMA) and I don't need any more.

Re: new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connector

DanS26 wrote: »

More panels on the roof overcomes the trade off that comes with the optimum tilt angle but less panels. Makes sense to me.

The way you can look at it is this:

Instead of looking at the area of the roof, look at the area of a single sheet of material pointed directly at the sun and with its bottom edge at the bottom edge of the roof and its top edge casting a shadow on the top edge of the roof. That is how much incident sunlight will hit either properly spaced tilted panels or a roof full of flat panels. The only difference is if you extend your upper row of tilted panels so that the top edge rises above the top of the roof you will get a little more sunlight from the tilted panels.
Since the tilt angle can be adjusted to match the summer and winter sun angle, but the spacing between the rows cannot, you will either waste some sun falling between the panels during the summer or lose some sun from shading in the winter. The panels flat on the roof will catch it all, but less efficiently.


For off grid, winter is when you need sun the most, while for grid tie, summer is your big producing season and when you get the best price for your panel output.
So the decision will vary with the kind of PV installation you are building.

Re: new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connector

rollandelliott wrote: »

I'm confused, you seem not to like them?
Then why have you installed hundreds of them?

Because I worked as a grunt for the company that installed them.

why would you have dangling mc4's ? the only wiring you connect to is the AC output.

They still sell both an AC and DC version. I didn't notice that the video you linked to only shows the AC version.

What do you do when you reach the end of the row and want to connect to the next row up or down? They sell an extension cable, yes, but now you are having all the wire management problems I mentioned. I can almost guarantee you that 90% of the extension cables installed with this system end up lying at least partially on the roof.

With the DC version, yes the wiring also clicks together, but then you have the problem of connecting to the next row or zip-tying home runs to the panel frames. It rarely is pretty when you have to do that. With DC you probably have to buy or wire your own cables with MC4s.

rollandelliott wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwOJOdXsjPY

the andalay system for wiring is differnet than westinghouse as the above video shows

I think your opinion is outdated.

Nah, not really. Yeah, okay, it looks like they've improved it a bunch, but there are still problems.

First, see wire management above. It's only a partial improvement.

Second, if your AHJ doesn't accept that they are true AC modules, you may have to run a bare copper wire directlyto all the inverters. This defeats a major advantage of the system, adding backing in the time and hassle you have with other systems.

The problem of servicing a module in the middle of the array is still there, and is particularly back with multiple rows.

To sum up, the system works pretty well if your array will be a single long portrait row of panels. For that arrangement, I could recommend it (leaving aside any price question). For any other arrangement, it gets ugly and the advantages over "traditional" racking systems disappear quickly.

Re: new solar panels that integrated wiring, no more zip ties and dangling mc4 connector

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Interpretation of NEC is half the battle, guys.

Let's face it, one exceptionally dim inspector could demand DC GFI on those "AC modules" because there is wire from the panel to the micro-inverter. His even dumber cousin would then point out that local code requires DC disconnect beside the main meter, and so you have to run all the DC wires down to separate disconnects for each unit all lined up beside the utility meter.

Okay, it hasn't happened yet but ...

Fortunately, if that sort of thing is ever suggested, the readily available counter is that the inspector has no power over the internal interconnections of a "listed assembly."