Suresine 300 bit the dust!

icarus
icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
My five year old Suresine 300 died unexpectedly this morning. I ran the genny for an hour or so to do some bulk charging since we are in but of snow for several days. I shut everything off ~9 and went down the lake to work on the project I have been working on for a year.

I cam home at noon, and the inverter induced a huge buzz in the ferrite coils I have on DC side as it pulsed to find a load. Once I gve it a small load ~2 amps, (12 vdc) it buzzed the breaker box, and then threw a red light code. Turning it off and then back on again repeated the same exercise. Me not thinking that anything was wrong I began to assume it was in the house wiring or perhaps the transfer switch between the inverter and the genny wiring. I tried disconnecting the load side terminals, and the result was the same. Eventually everything in the house went dead. It took me a while to realize that not only ws the zq120 vc side of the house dead, but so as the 12 vdc side. Then I realized I had lown the main 30 amp fuse between the batteries and the inverter and the PV in put.

I unwired the Susine and wird in a cheap auto parts store MSW Inverter which is what I am using now. Finally I checked the transfer switch with the genny running and the MSW running and all was normal.


so the question is, does any body hve any guesses as to what may have caused this, and is there any simple field repairs I could look at? I did notice that it had a bit louder buzz in the recent past, but since it was vibrating the ferrite core I can't say if it was the investor simply the ferrite. Now when I plug the inverter in with no load, it pulse buzzes, and with no load, but the inverter turned on (not hunting for a load) it draws nearly 30 amps (12 vdc.)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Tony
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Comments

  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!
    icarus wrote: »
    My five year old Suresine 300 died unexpectedly this morning. I ran the genny for an hour or so to do some bulk charging since we are in but of snow for several days. I shut everything off ~9 and went down the lake to work on the project I have been working on for a year.

    I cam home at noon, and the inverter induced a huge buzz in the ferrite coils I have on DC side as it pulsed to find a load. Once I gve it a small load ~2 amps, (12 vdc) it buzzed the breaker box, and then threw a red light code. Turning it off and then back on again repeated the same exercise. Me not thinking that anything was wrong I began to assume it was in the house wiring or perhaps the transfer switch between the inverter and the genny wiring. I tried disconnecting the load side terminals, and the result was the same. Eventually everything in the house went dead. It took me a while to realize that not only ws the zq120 vc side of the house dead, but so as the 12 vdc side. Then I realized I had lown the main 30 amp fuse between the batteries and the inverter and the PV in put.

    I unwired the Susine and wird in a cheap auto parts store MSW Inverter which is what I am using now. Finally I checked the transfer switch with the genny running and the MSW running and all was normal.


    so the question is, does any body hve any guesses as to what may have caused this, and is there any simple field repairs I could look at? I did notice that it had a bit louder buzz in the recent past, but since it was vibrating the ferrite core I can't say if it was the investor simply the ferrite. Now when I plug the inverter in with no load, it pulse buzzes, and with no load, but the inverter turned on (not hunting for a load) it draws nearly 30 amps (12 vdc.)

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

    Tony

    I would say that since it is drawing lots of power (30 amps DC) without any load there must be an internal short circuit (or close to it) of some sort. Possibly one or more of the power semiconductors has failed.

    There are lots of other possibilities, but that seems like the best bet. On the other hand, the fact that it buzzes rather than just sitting there melting suggests that the fault may be on the AC output side rather than on the DC drive side. It certainly is able to draw high DC current and then shut it off again.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Thanks Inet,

    I found an old thread chronicling a number of warrantee failures virtually all with similar symptoms,, using high current draw with no load. I am going to order a new one, and hope I can get someone to go to the border to pick it up for me.

    Taking the front and bck off reveals nothing unusual, no hot spots, no smells etc.

    Tony
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    sorry it blew out. bummer.

    sounds like blown fets. most likely the fuse popped before it burned stuff to smell.

    now that you have a paperweight, maybe you can tear it apart and see if you can fix it? i'd still get a new one though.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Paper weight? The damn thing weighs about 20 lbs, Does anybody know a retailer in Wisc or Northern MN? I would buy a new one from NAWS, but I have a guy driving up this week end could bring me a new one if I could find a source. I can't get one from NAWS in time,, even with next day shipping, and I am not willing to pay for that at this point.

    Tony
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    well, the paper sure won't blow away.:-):p ok, maybe i should've said small boat anchor.

    maybe contact morningstar itself and ask them if they have anybody that deals with them up that way.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Does sound like blown FETs, and if they can be gotten at and checked for shorts, they should be replaceable if shorts are confirmed. However, even though I have two TS-300 in operation, I've never had reason to see how hard their FETs are to get at. As for replacement FETs, I have purchased common automotive inverters on sale, then stripped them down for their FETs, then looking up the FET specs online to ensure they'll do the job. Far cheaper and faster for me than sourcing, ordering, shipping, import duties etc etc involved in obtaining OE parts. Have repaired several higher quality inverters this way when there was nothing to lose.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Well I bit the bullet and order another one from NAWS. They jumped through hoops to get it shipped out UPS next day, since I have someone who is coming up from the States on Friday who ca deliver it to me. (saving me a ton of headaches, not to mention either a 5 hour drive to the border to pick it up, or wait several weeks for Canada post to gt it to me)

    I can't say enough about NAWS customer service. Thanks guys!

    I hve yet to hear from Morningstar to see if they can / will repair the original, if not I will send it to my favorite electronics genius to see if he can get it up and running at least for a spare.

    Tony
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Great to hear of such great service Icarus! And hopefully the old unit can indeed be repaired, always good to have a spare.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Oh,, and by they thanks for all the offers if help from folks in MN and WI with shipping to the border etc. I think I got it covered, but they are all stellar examples of why this forum is such a great resource. People are not only willing to help on the forum, but willing to help in the physical world as well.

    Thanks all.

    Tony
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    So, doing a bit of traveling, and i dropped by my elrectronic guru. We took it apart for a looksee. (by the way, I am not an electronics whizz, in fact I hardly know a FET from a LED!) On the back of the board are 12 FETs, in 4 sets of 3. Non seems to show that they are "cooked", no surprise there.


    The question for those that have been there before, does anyone have an idea of the values of any of these FETS, and perhaps more importantly do you have a guess as to which one(s) were prone to failure? We don't have any way of testing them except to power it up and see which gets warm, but the risk there is that the bad one may send a cascade of faults through the entire circuit, if it hasn't done so yet.


    A schematic would be great if anyone has access to one. Morningstar is not really interested in providing one. I suspect that fixing this one for a spare is going to be a long shot at best.

    Any clever ideas?

    Thanks in advance for any and all help,

    Tony
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Without powering up the inverter, a good digital multimeter should be able to compare the resistance across the terminals of the FETs and quickly find any that are shorted. I strongly suspect each set of 3 are wired in parallel, so they share a common load, rather than having just one huge FET. That's rather common, as smaller FETs are easier and cheaper to come by. Many inverters without an output transformer, have 4, or 4 sets of FETs to supply the AC output, but where this one has a transformer, it MIGHT, be using then all to drive a center tapped transformer, but without a schematic, or really digging into the unit and it's circuitry, it's very hard to say.
    Still, with a good meter, it should be relatively easy to identify shorted FETs, if indeed they are shorted, but I suspect at least some are shorted.
    Good luck.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Merci, mon ami,

    We will see what we can find, but it may be a while.

    Tony

    PS Any other suggestions welcome,

    T
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    don't put the meter in a resistive scale to measure the voltages. if attempting to measure resistance then no power should be present and it may be good practice to short across the points to be measured without power on to discharge any potentials that may be present due to capacitors being charged up. speaking of capacitors, if the top of any of the polarized electrolytics are bulging then it is most likely a bad cap.

    look for an internal fuse as some have them. not sure if morningstar does or not.

    i seriously doubt you'll come by a schematic
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Speaking as someone who used to do this sort of repair work 30 years ago, I'll suggest pulling the FETs and testing with an Ohm meter. That way you know for sure if it's the FET that's shorted or something else in the circuit causing a short path around it. Tough to test individual components that are still connected.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Speaking as someone who used to do this sort of repair work 30 years ago, I'll suggest pulling the FETs and testing with an Ohm meter. That way you know for sure if it's the FET that's shorted or something else in the circuit causing a short path around it. Tough to test individual components that are still connected.
    Agree. It can most certainly be impossible to get a good reading while they're still in circuit, depending on the circuit design, but I would first check for shorts while still in circuit, and if they appear shorted, then remove and do a proper check. That can often reduce the need to unsolder, resolder, and possibly damaging the board. Especially if the person doing the work isn't really used to that type of work.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Susresine 300 bit the dust!

    Yea, I agree that checking them withing the circuit is pretty sketchy. There is no physical sign on any of the caps (or anything else for that matter) of damagage. My electronics guy is going to consider unsoldering all the FETs, but his time is short, so I can't burden him with a ton of "free work" for a $300 item that I will only use as a spare.

    Like I said, if I could narrow it down by someone who has more experience as to the LIKELY target, it would make life simpler.

    Thanks for the tips guys,, I will keep trolling,

    Tony
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