Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048

When using the XW6048 off-grid (for example, during power outage), can the Generator input (AC2) be used to charge the battery? The operating instructions indicate the generator is to "supplement" the inverter to power loads, but does not clearly indicate if the generator can charge the battery.

In my application, the battery is the primary power source, and the generator is to be used intermittently. Whatever is not consumed by loads, the balance of the generator's output is to go towards battery charging.

Thanks.

Comments

  • Joe_BJoe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048

    Over six months ago I reported this AC2 charger block bug to the Schneider tech support people. They confirmed that there is a bug in the firmware that blocks battery charging on AC2 when AC1 charger block is enabled. To date, they have done absolutely nothing to address the issue except to tell me to watch the web site for a fix. So far nothing which is par for the course. Welcome to the world of crappy XW firmware and their crappy tech support :)
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,212 admin
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048

    Well, that is terrible news.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Joe_BJoe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048
    BB. wrote: »
    Well, that is terrible news.

    -Bill

    Believe me Bill, this is what I have come to expect as an XW customer. I cant really blame the people who answer the phones and read the scripts. I think they are hamstrung by the powers at Schneider who have decided that there is not going to be any further development on the XW system. Too bad, so sad, but when this system goes south, I will be replacing it with some outback hardware.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048
    Joe_B wrote: »
    Believe me Bill, this is what I have come to expect as an XW customer. I cant really blame the people who answer the phones and read the scripts. I think they are hamstrung by the powers at Schneider who have decided that there is not going to be any further development on the XW system. Too bad, so sad, but when this system goes south, I will be replacing it with some outback hardware.

    imo, even crewzer, who is a dept head there, has his hands tied as his bosses over him dictate what will or will not be. many here saw a change for the worse from him when he went there and he is now a prisoner of his job and employer whether he agrees with the changes or not. that was a huge contrast seen between outback and xantrex/schneider.
  • offgrid meoffgrid me Solar Expert Posts: 119 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048

    Couldn't he just set AC priority to AC2 and ignore ac1 when the power is out? Just treat it like a full off grid system till grid power is restored.
    Ned
  • swmspamswmspam Solar Expert Posts: 57 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048
    offgrid me wrote: »
    Couldn't he just set AC priority to AC2 and ignore ac1 when the power is out? Just treat it like a full off grid system till grid power is restored.
    Ned

    Ah-ha! The operator's manual doesn't explicitly say this when discussing the AC2 input. It's not very clear. Since I haven't purchased the XW6048, perhaps there is a competitor unit that I should consider? It seems the XW6048 combines all of the goodies into one box, more tightly integrated than competing units.

    Ned, your comment also brings up my next question. Perhaps I'll post it as a new thread.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048
    swmspam wrote: »
    Ah-ha! The operator's manual doesn't explicitly say this when discussing the AC2 input. It's not very clear. Since I haven't purchased the XW6048, perhaps there is a competitor unit that I should consider? It seems the XW6048 combines all of the goodies into one box, more tightly integrated than competing units.

    Ned, your comment also brings up my next question. Perhaps I'll post it as a new thread.

    Outback's 8kW 48 Volt Radian GT hybrid inverter: http://www.solar-electric.com/ourags8wain.html
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,212 admin
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048

    Are you going to do this yourself? Or use a contractor? Is there any others local to you that have experience/can help?

    I am not sure that this AC1/AC2 issue is the end of the world if you have a large solar array attached--You probably would not use AC mains for charging.

    But these are complicated beasts here--And having local knowledge may be helpful.

    Almost wondering if we should not have a XW/OutBack/Midnite/etc. configuration questions forum...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048
    BB. wrote: »
    Almost wondering if we should not have a XW/OutBack/Midnite/etc. configuration questions forum...

    -Bill

    Well the XW is the only one that really ever gives anyone trouble. The answer is nearly always "it doesn't work" anyway. :p Honestly; the need for the expensive dongle to install updates that change a few of the bugs combined with Schneider/Xantrex's indifferent customer service has made the XW an extremely disappointing product that has/had such great potential.
  • Joe_BJoe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048
    swmspam wrote: »
    Ah-ha! The operator's manual doesn't explicitly say this when discussing the AC2 input. It's not very clear. Since I haven't purchased the XW6048, perhaps there is a competitor unit that I should consider? It seems the XW6048 combines all of the goodies into one box, more tightly integrated than competing units.

    Ned, your comment also brings up my next question. Perhaps I'll post it as a new thread.

    The issue with the AC2 and charger block is as follows:

    The manual states that charger block only affects AC1 which is a good thing. You need charger block on AC1 when you have a grid tied system and the power goes out frequently. In my system, I have AC1 tied to the grid and AC2 tied to my generator. I also have enough PV to support my loads during the day.

    Since my grid power goes off for brief periods quite frequently, I have the charger blocked to prevent charging from the grid when the grid power comes back on. If the firmware worked properly, the system would come back from a grid failure and look at the recharge volts setting to determine if the battery needs charging. Well it does not do that, when the grid comes back up, the grid charger will automatically go into bulk mode regardless of the SOC, which will cause the PV harvest to stop and draw all power off the grid. Hello XW, THAT IS A BUG!

    So most folks with adequate PV will have to enable the charger block. Unfortunately, charger block will also prevent charging from AC2. Hello XW, THAT IS A BUG!

    So the broken crap from XW works as follows, when the charger block is on and the PV is not enough to support loads AND the battery is depleted, the AGS will start the generator. BUT the charger block is on and is blocking AC2 (BUG) so the generator will only support the loads, and the battery will not be charged.

    It stated specifically in the manual that charger block will only affect AC1 and AC2 will charge the bank normally. BUT by blocking AC2 as well, it makes the AGS function pretty much useless unless you are there to manually disable charger block when the generator starts.

    Wonderful, simply outstanding. You would have thought that someone would have tested that functionality before foisting this junk on the customer base. Not only that, they have acknowleged that the bug exists and the unit does not perform as it should but no fix is forthcoming.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048

    As I read it, Outback is having some teething issues with the Radian, their newest Inverter/Charger. AND, the charger section of the Radian is NOT Power Factor Corrected -- which is really only an issue when using a genset.

    It IS a shame that Schneider appears to care so little about their RE customers. The hardware, although generally made in China, appears to be much better than Schneider's ability to program it to make it functional and/or to fix their numerous BUGs. Seems that that S truly not care less. Many of us wish that this was not so.

    Viewing from a distance, perhaps Magnum power inverters are an up and coming contender. Opinions, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Charging with Generator with Xantrex XW6048

    magnum is ok, but they aren't into gt selling. who knows if they will as they could've jumped into that at any time over the years. the more the merrier i guess.

    now don't rule out midnite either down the road for once things settle down i would look forward to some inverters from them.:D8)
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