Battery advise.

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basewindow
basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Hi, guys.

Just want to get some advise on some Batteries.

I have been offered for sale some Vision 2v AGM CL500 500ah batteries, 6 in total.

They are new and have never been used, but have been sitting in the warehouse for the last two years.

Are they going to be any good or will they just be a waste of time?

Cheers,

Cam
Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Battery advise.

    Not familiar with the brand...but.... if they are new-old-stock they are probably dunners... had they been float charged during the 2 years, they may have been ok. Not if as you described...
    How little do they want for them?
    If they are willing to offer a warranty (written) for the original Mfgr warranty period....who knows, you could possibly have a good deal on hand...
    They should sell for a little more than scrap metal price, so you get your money back. you can use them for a 'learner set' of batteries.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Battery advise.

    By far the majority of lead/acid batteries that have been left sitting for two years, will have become batteries in looks and weight only. Such a shame :cry:
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  • basewindow
    basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Battery advise.

    Thanks for the response.
    No there is no warranty and they want $500 for the 6.
    I already have two working 12v 100ah in para, but 500 would have been nice.
    I looked on the Vision web site and it said 20 year life with low self discharge rate,
    But I assume two years sitting is even too long for them.

    Regards
    Cam.
    Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Battery advise.

    Get them to agree to charge them for you, or allow you to charge them in their warehouse, and allow you to run some tests. Resting voltage, and multiple load tests.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #6
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    Re: Battery advise.

    Measure the voltage before charging... If less than 12.5 volts (i.e., 11 volts or less), they are probably scrap.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • rplarry
    rplarry Solar Expert Posts: 203 ✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Battery advise.
    techntrek wrote: »
    Get them to agree to charge them for you, or allow you to charge them in their warehouse, and allow you to run some tests. Resting voltage, and multiple load tests.

    I agree with trek, I bought some one year old but never used batteries and they are just fine. That's a good price so maybe worth the time to test them out.
    Larry
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Battery advise.

    As "BB" said, definitely check the voltages before you charge them, so you'll know for future reference just what you're dealing with. You'll know if they were left sitting dead and are therefore sulfated, or were they somehow able to hold enough change for all that time, to prevent sulfation.
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  • basewindow
    basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Battery advise.

    So without any charging what should each batteries voltage be at the moment? Can they actually last 2 years with no charging?
    Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #10
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    Re: Battery advise.

    The normal recommendation is to recharge flooded cell batteries at least once a month and AGM's once every three months (assumed that battery's will loose about 25% of charge in that period).

    And there is the rule of 10oC/18oF--For every 10oC decrease in temperature, life will be extended by about a factor of 2x (increase in temperature by 10oC will decrease life by 1/2)... If the batteries are stored at 10oC less than 25oC/75oF then the self discharge should be about 1/2 (15oC/57oF).

    But to store 2 years without charging--They would have to be stored at below freezing without charging...

    In theory, if the batteries are above 12.4 volts resting (after two years of no-charging), they may be (in theory) OK.

    In practice, it is unlikely that if they have been stored for two years, they will be in good shape.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • rplarry
    rplarry Solar Expert Posts: 203 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Battery advise.
    basewindow wrote: »
    So without any charging what should each batteries voltage be at the moment? Can they actually last 2 years with no charging?

    A fully charged lead acid agm or flooded battery will be about 2.12 volts per 2v cell. Or 12.72 total for 6- 2v cells. The ones I bought a year ago were charged at the warehouse and after 3 weeks resting in the back of my truck they were at 2.15v per cell. Not sure why they were so high but they seem to be working just fine for me. I would check those batteries out and if they hold a charge they are probably worth a try. Scrap value right now is about 20 cents a pound so you will be able to get some money back for them when they die.
    Hope this helps
    Larry
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  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Battery advise.

    FWIW there are some AGMs that claim to have a shelf life of "up to 2 years at 25* C".

    Perhaps this is just marketing hype?

    Checking the voltage at rest is a good idea.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Battery advise.

    mtdoc,
    look at it from a different angle. i am assuming this is until death or 100% dod they are taking it to. so we start at 100% soc and divide that by 24 months and we get a 4.17% monthly rate of discharge. this is even worse than what it is for my sunxtenders which are at 1%-3%/month.
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  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Battery advise.
    niel wrote: »
    mtdoc,
    i am assuming this is until death or 100% dod they are taking it to.

    Surprisingly I think that is not what they are saying.

    "Longer storage life
    Unlike conventional batteries that need a recharge every 6 to 12 weeks, a fully charged ODYSSEY battery can be stored for
    up to 2 years at 25°C (77°F) from a full state of charge. At lower temperatures, storage times will be even longer."

    I don't think it would be much of a claim if after 2 years the batteries were dead.

    Of this could be marketing hype. On the other hand Odyssey batteries have been around for a while and have a good reputation in the marine - offshore cruising world- were they get alot of abuse.

    Not trying to dispute that most batteries - even AGMs would not be in any kind of good shape after 2 years without a charge - just that at least one company claims their batteries can be stored this long. I have no idea if it's an accurate claim.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Battery advise.

    It's hard to compare Odyssey DRY cell technology as it relates to flooded lead acid batteries. I have one in a Jet Ski and while pricey, they do last without attention.
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  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Battery advise.

    True enough. Flooded LAs behave differently than AGM's (like the Odysseys). I believe the OPs question was about AGM's.

    BTW I have observed that a fully charged Odyssey's resting voltage does not change after 3 months without charge - but I can't say it's accurate to extrapolate that stability out to 2 years...
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  • basewindow
    basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Battery advise.

    Hi again.

    E-mailed the guy and asked him to check the voltage as they are now. He says they are at 12.2 to 12.4. How does that sound? Should I get him to check each individual battery as there are 6 2v?

    Cheers,

    Cam.
    Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Battery advise.

    I would do each 2 volt battery, yes.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
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    Re: Battery advise.
    basewindow wrote: »
    E-mailed the guy and asked him to check the voltage as they are now. He says they are at 12.2 to 12.4.

    That's pretty hopeful - low but may be recoverable.
    How does that sound? Should I get him to check each individual battery as there are 6 2v?

    If he can do that, yes. You may find one cell at 1.5 volts or something (which means you're out of luck) or you may find them all just above 2 volts, in which case odds are good that they have retained much of their capacity.
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  • basewindow
    basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    #20
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    Re: Battery advise.

    Thanks for the advise. When I asked to have each 2v battery checked, I never ended up with a reply. One can only assume one or more was probably no good. Shame.
    Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #21
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    Re: Battery advise.

    Still good news for you though, since it saved you from buying junk.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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