Just got off the grid! Yeah! Inverter doesn't like my generator. Booh!

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Outofthesystem
Outofthesystem Registered Users Posts: 1
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Hi all,

Awesome to join this forum! We are excited to finally be living off the grid in Southern Colorado and have inherited an older solar system with a ten year old 24 volt Trace inverter. We are renting a Honda generator EG 3500 to see how it works charging our system since the generator the system came with never worked from the get go. However when we plug it into the inverter it goes from blinking green light to solid green light for about 30 seconds (meaning its charging it) and then back to blinking green light meaning its not for the entire time its on it keeps switching back and forth. We've tried turning the amps? volts? up and down between 10 all the way up to 30 as was suggested and it makes no difference. Is this just not a strong enough generator? That shouldn't make a difference right?

We've had some cloudy afternoons, and are frustrated we can't run things through the night.
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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Just got off the grid! Yeah! Inverter doesn't like my generator. Booh!

    Hi,

    Which Trace inverter do you have?

    Are you running loads while the gen is on?
    Do you have any meters for AC or DC voltage and amps?

    -Alex
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #3
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    Re: Just got off the grid! Yeah! Inverter doesn't like my generator. Booh!

    It is not my money--But I am cheap :roll:. So my suggestion.

    The old Trace inverter may be perfectly OK for the present--But I would not put too much time/money/effort into it (such as trying to fix the AC charging system--other than reading the manual and checking the programming instructions).

    You can also get a Kill-a-Watt type meter and/or DC Current Clamp meter (this one is AC/DC current + DMM + frequency for a cheap price) and measure the line frequency of your generator (I highly recommend getting both types of meters). Some Inverter/Chargers/Bypass units may need the voltage/frequency range opened up to better capture the generator voltage/frequency (or adjust the RPM to be closer to 60 Hz).

    If reading the programming manual, checking the setup, etc. does not get you anywhere... I would suggest getting a AC Battery Charger to directly recharge your battery bank. If nothing else, having a spare charger will not be a bad thing if you are out in the middle of nowhere.

    To better suggest options--I need to know a bit more about your system and power usage.
    1. What size (AH and Voltage) is your battery bank? Is it flooded cell or AGM/Sealed?
    2. Do you know how many Amp*Hours/Watt*Hours per day you use?
    3. Can you tell us about your solar system (panels, watts, array configuration, brand/model of charge controller, etc.)?
    4. What other tools do you have (hydrometer, volt meter, battery monitor, etc.)?

    If this is an old system, the battery bank may be close to needing replacement. Deeply discharging a bank, failing to get it fully recharged every few days/week, taking the bank dead once, etc. all can shave years off a battery bank.

    Failing to recharge/sustain your loads through the night may be a failing bank, using too much electricity, and/or an under/poorly charged bank (which will lead to a failed bank).

    Here are some FAQ's about battery banks. Understanding your battery is 50-75% of the management of your off grid power system. Everything is built around "keeping your battery bank happy". The rest of the hardware is usually pretty bullet resistant and will most likely not be damaged by the normal mistakes.

    Deep Cycle Battery FAQ
    www.batteryfaq.org

    If your system is "sort of working"--Logging your Amp*Hours or Watt*Hours used per day will be very helpful in understanding where you want to take the system next (larger or smaller battery bank, more solar panels, hardware upgrades, more conservation measures around the home, etc.). A Battery Monitor (Victron is another good brand) can be very nice to help manage your battery bank, and great for a spouse or kids/guests that will be using the system but cannot be expected to take hydrometer readings/etc.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Just got off the grid! Yeah! Inverter doesn't like my generator. Booh!

    Wild guess: Trace 4024 does not like the "shifting frequency" of the Honda EM 3500. It isn't the Honda that's at fault. Probably if you hooked up to an inverter-generator it would do the same thing.

    You would have been adjusting the AC input Amps most likely. That wouldn't make any difference.

    Dollars to donuts the problem here is going to be the Trace inverter. They were great in their day, but they've exceeded life expectancy now. Repair usually isn't an option anymore either.

    It does also sound like the battery bank has had it as well.

    Throw all the specifications at us: solar panels, battery bank, inverter, and power requirements. Old systems frequently need a total rethink and a lot of upgrading (replacing).
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Just got off the grid! Yeah! Inverter doesn't like my generator. Booh!

    One thing you can try, apply a decent resistive load directly to the generator like a 60 watt incandescent bulb, then connect the genset to your inverter. The short explanation is that some gensets need a base load to stabilize them.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Just got off the grid! Yeah! Inverter doesn't like my generator. Booh!

    Well it is very frustrating beginning with a system that has disfunctional parts.

    Most of the neighbors here are still running ten or more year-old Trace Inverters 4024 &4048s. Almost all have no problems with them.

    If this inverter is an SW 4024, or similar, they have many menues that must have correct settings to accept the genset output, and stay connected to it. A 3500-ish watt genset may be a bit on the small side if there are many loads on the system.

    If the OP has a friend or neighbor familiar with that inverter model, it could be very helpful to have them consult on all of the settings in the inverter.
    Short of that, YES please give all of the details of the system -- model numbers and so on. Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Just got off the grid! Yeah! Inverter doesn't like my generator. Booh!

    Just to rule out the obvious, if the inverter has generator AND utility inputs (AC1 and AC2) be sure you're on AC2, the generator inputs. The old Xantrex models (like mine) have very picky limits for utility power but more lattitude for generator frequency and voltage. Steady green light means connected and charging, but if dropped it will go back to flashing green...trying to synchronize.

    Sounds like a synch problem. Try the lightbulb load to stabilize the generator before/during startup.

    Ralph
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