Cabin Lighting

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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #32
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    nasty wrote: »
    I was thinking separate circuits for for "high power" and "low power"
    That's the way I went and it works awesome. No transfer switches, no forgetting to switch over, I can go away and let it do it's own thing.
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  • nasty
    nasty Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #33
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    Wayne did you go with two seperate distribution panels?
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #34
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    nasty wrote: »
    Wayne did you go with two separate distribution panels?

    Did not use a distribution panel for the little 300 watt inverter. It has a fused AC switch on it's output and after that, feeds all the small loads directly from that common source, which except for the common grounding system, has no interconnection whatever with the other inverter outputs. It's only 300 watts. Would that pass inspection? Guess it would depend on the use, or not, of something rather rare in today's world. Common Sense.
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  • nasty
    nasty Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #35
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    With the wiring diagram below in mind can I use the same 125A breaker for the two inverters if I went with a transfer switch? Or a totally seperate breaker?

    Attachment not found.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #36
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    In my opinion a separate breaker for each inverter, each sized to what the inverter requires, assuming the supply wires are big enough to handle the current of the breaker. That way, not only will the different sized inverters be properly "fused", but power can be removed from a malfunctioning inverter while allowing the other to continue operating.
    Question: The 125 amp breaker marked "line" and "load", is that a DC capable breaker? The reversed line and load markings raised the question. Other than that, looks good to me, except that you mentioned going with two different inverters, one for small loads and the other for large loads - - - but your diagram only shows one inverter. Perhaps me confused? As it's 4 AM here, no doubt I at least somewhat confused. :blush:
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  • nasty
    nasty Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #37
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    125A breaker is DC. Didnt put in other inverter because I uploaded old diagram. The disconnect is from midnite solar and I believe thats how the line/load was shown in manual. I sent this to their tech dept to verify I had it wired correctly and they said it was right. I was thinking the same thing to use a second breaker for disconnect.
    Since my big inverter has a GFCI outlet could I simply wire a GFCI outlet to the small inverter and a plug wired from the distribution panel to make a manual transfer switch. I can switch between them when nothing is being powered.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #38
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    Question: The 125 amp breaker marked "line" and "load", is that a DC capable breaker? The reversed line and load markings raised the question.

    Wayne is correct... there's a mistake in the wiring diagram. The 'Line' side of the 125 amp breaker should connect to the plus terminal of the battery. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • ywhic
    ywhic Solar Expert Posts: 621 ✭✭
    #39
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    If one of your inverters has a GFCI outlet you may want to read this post..

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?15782-Frustrated-a-fairly-long-post-%28&

    You can only have 1 neutral bonded to ground in the system.. and on most inverters with a GFCI outlet it is bound inside the inverter.. so any other neutral/ground bonding in either the service panel or outlets will cause a fault..
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  • nasty
    nasty Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #40
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    ywhic wrote: »
    If one of your inverters has a GFCI outlet you may want to read this post..

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?15782-Frustrated-a-fairly-long-post-%28&

    You can only have 1 neutral bonded to ground in the system.. and on most inverters with a GFCI outlet it is bound inside the inverter.. so any other neutral/ground bonding in either the service panel or outlets will cause a fault..

    But if one of those inverters is not in use (unplugged) does that not take it out of the system?
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  • nasty
    nasty Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #41
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Wayne is correct... there's a mistake in the wiring diagram. The 'Line' side of the 125 amp breaker should connect to the plus terminal of the battery. --vtMaps

    This is what I was told from Midnite Solar:

    Polarity is not an issue on the battery breakers mainly do to the high IAC and the low operating voltage.

    I have designed most of the DC electrical boxes installed in North America. I have always hooked the battery plus to the bottom stud. This is done for ease of wiring. When you are charging, the inverter is the source and the battery is the load, so technically it would be correct when charging. I have found over the years that with a 50,000 amp plus AIC and the relatively battery voltage as compared to the 125 volt rating, their just isn't a problem. Thousands of invereters over the years have blown and the breakers always do their job. When an inverter blows up, the fets short. This makes a direct short across the battery. The battery voltage is drawn down a bit due to the huge amount of current going though the inverter circuit and the AIC rating is overly sufficient to trip the breaker. We chose this style breaker many years ago for a good reason.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #42
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing the info from Midnight
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  • nasty
    nasty Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #43
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    I have a grounding question. Does this look right or do I need to have a neutral to ground bond? When I add the Morningstar 300 inverter it says to wire the white AC Line wire to earth ground. Will this also be alright to ground to bus with everything else? It will be fused with a disconnect also. Thanks

    Attachment not found.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #44
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    nasty wrote: »
    I have a grounding question. Does this look right or do I need to have a neutral to ground bond? When I add the Morningstar 300 inverter it says to wire the white AC Line wire to earth ground. Will this also be alright to ground to bus with everything else? It will be fused with a disconnect also. Thanks

    I couldn't see your photo clear enough to see what was what, but that aside, the Morningstar manual that came with my inverters recommended grounding whichever of the AC outputs you decided to use as neutral. That's what I did with the two I have. One of the AC output terminals from each Morningstar inverter is permanently bonded to common ground. Both the DC+ and the AC are through disconnects. The DC- and ground are not.
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  • larcal
    larcal Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭
    #45
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    I'm confused, could you guys clarify your experiences? WaynefromCanada warns that he got substantially diminished light with dc leds in the evening, I guess around 12.5v?. But Samuel reports no low voltage diminishment and he seems to have widely experimented. Especially because I vaquely recall reports of Wayne's problem elsewhere, so I'm wondering why the discrepency?. Been running cfl's from Montana light for many years and looking for an improvement. Am attracted mainly to screw in type bases like the E26 Samuel mentions and I guess has used and is sold on Amazon. Also concerned with high voltages like get everyday in the cold over 15v in absorbtion charge and over 16 when equalizing in winter. Somewhere I saw a warning about this on one particular model only but now I can't find the reference. Kind of suspect that led's are not yet quite up to the useability of good cfl's as they are not widely sold thru RE retailers, but don't know why, and hoping I'm wrong.
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  • samuel
    samuel Solar Expert Posts: 80 ✭✭✭✭
    #46
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    Re: Cabin Lighting

    I can't comment on specific voltage changes (eg, batteries = 13.5V, current at light bulb = 13.1V) but in usability I've noticed no issues whatsoever with voltage at the battery ranging from 11.7 and 14V. I suspect this will hold true for higher and lower voltages. I haven't taken the time to record my observations at these levels - but I haven't noticed an issue under normal operations. I usually make an effort to turn off my 12V system when equalizing, but I'm pretty sure I forgot to do this at least once and nothing bad happened.

    I would experiment and keep receipts. Worst case scenario is probably having to return a few items and some time lost to the experiment. As far as damage from over-voltage I don't foresee any future problems with the bulbs I'm currently using. I'd have to refer to manufacturer information if available.
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  • larcal
    larcal Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭
    #47
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    samuel wrote: »
    I can't comment on specific voltage changes (eg, batteries = 13.5V, current at light bulb = 13.1V) but in usability I've noticed no issues whatsoever with voltage at the battery ranging from 11.7 and 14V. I suspect this will hold true for higher and lower voltages. I haven't taken the time to record my observations at these levels - but I haven't noticed an issue under normal operations. I usually make an effort to turn off my 12V system when equalizing, but I'm pretty sure I forgot to do this at least once and nothing bad happened.

    I would experiment and keep receipts. Worst case scenario is probably having to return a few items and some time lost to the experiment. As far as damage from over-voltage I don't foresee any future problems with the bulbs I'm currently using. I'd have to refer to manufacturer information if available.

    Thanks Samuel--your info is very encouraging. Especially that the E26 etc. is just as bright at 11.7 volts. Plenty low enough! Curious though, why you only know up to 14 volts. Don't you have to go into the low 15"s several times a week in colder temps just for bulk charging? (never minding equalize) Unless of course your batteries are inside at room temp, but even then you'd be doing 14.6 or 14.8 before going into float. Also, does that e26 have a glare to it, as in uncomfortable to look at?
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  • samuel
    samuel Solar Expert Posts: 80 ✭✭✭✭
    #48
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    Re: Cabin Lighting
    Don't you have to go into the low 15"s several times a week in colder temps just for bulk charging?

    Well, I've seen 14.8 to 14.9V without issue on the garage LEDs. I haven't actually seen those votlages on the E26 style bulb since they are only on at night (no solar power at night!) and I don't spend a lot of time at the cabin. I'm certain they have been on at 15V+ without issue.
    does that e26 have a glare to it, as in uncomfortable to look at?

    The bulbs have a plastic globe that diffuses the light. It is no more uncomfortable to look at than a CFL of the same lumen output.
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