120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

skrause272 · April 2012

Hello,

I am in the process of purchasing a 120 year old home and want to take it as far off grid and incorporate as many alternative energy methods as financially possible. The home is on a natural gas boiler and would like to update it with solar hot water, grey water system, wind, and outside wood, pellet, corn fired boiler. I really have no idea where to start and I'm trying to get a handle on the cost. I am not afraid to get my hands dirty and want to do as much of the work as possible myself. If anyone has any info or ideas I'd be extremely grateful. Thank you in advance for all your help.

westbranch · April 2012

Re: 120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

Welcome... I would start with the building department or other inspection agency and see what restrictions there may be in existence. Once you now what you CAN do come back. Also go to the local power authority and see if you can GRID TIE. Lots to look into..

HTH

BB. · April 2012

Re: 120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

That is going to be a tough one...

Guessing you are in Michigan... Using PV Watts to see how much sun you have (fixed array tilted to latitude) in Grand Rapids:

Month    Solar Radiation (kWh/m 2/day)
1      2.66     
2      3.57     
3      4.39     
4      5.09     
5      5.54     
6      5.79     
7      5.80     
8      5.48     
9      4.67     
10      3.76     
11      2.43     
12      2.15     
Year      4.28

Compared to near where I live--Not too sunny San Francisco (SFO airport):

Month    Solar Radiation (kWh/m 2/day)
1      3.62     
2      4.59     
3      5.22     
4      6.11     
5      6.36     
6      6.47     
7      7.01     
8      6.67     
9      6.62     
10      5.41     
11      3.87     
12      3.35     
Year      5.45

Your "solar collectors" would need to be ~50% larger than where I live--plus you have some pretty cold weather too--so more losses/darkness...

Basically, to do in a cost effective manner, you are going to have to reduce the overall energy foot print of the home by A LOT!

That means, gutting the exterior walls and packing with insulation (spray foam, fiberglass+vapor barrier, or whatever). Windows--Do you like 120 year old windows, or will you replace with double (or triple pane) windows (vinyl is probably the best, but there are wood based products too). Lots of ceiling insulation (attic configuration?).

Also, you may need to look at how the house is sitting on the site and what should be done to add/remove trees, heat capture (winter) and heat avoidance (summer)...

After all that is done, then energy efficient appliances, heating/cooling, lightning, etc...

Then, what are your sources of energy... Solar Thermal can be a very nice DIY type project. Buy/building solar collectors (water, hot air), heat storage, through conventional radiators etc..

For electricity and natural gas--Most off grid systems are going to cost more. For example, an off grid battery based electric system may cost around $1-$2+ per kWH--where most people pay around $0.10 to $0.30 per kWH.

Natural gas may be going down in price due to all the new drilling going on in the US. But, there are heat pump systems which are giving natural gas a run for its money for heating (and A/C--Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed) and hot water (electric water likely the #1 power user in my house).

Anyway--We have a thread here with lots of information and links to anything that is Solar RE/Conservation related as a starting point. Feel free to start a thread about anything you have questions about, or continue the discussion here.

Working Thread for Solar Beginner Post/FAQ

You might want to look into wind power for your home. I am not a big fan of small wind--So I would suggest you do a lot of research before you spend any $$$ money on wind (if your lot is too small for a 60-120 foot tall tower, or you do not live in a miserably windy location--Wind may not be a good answer anyway--lots of maintenance costs, usually less than advertised power output).

In the end, if you have Utility Power and Natural Gas to the home (and are not moving the home into a remote location)--Then, at least for now, keep the service and measure your loads/energy usage over time (at least one year) before you starting installing your Solar RE systems... It is much better to have a good handle on your overall energy usage before you start buying/installing your systems. If too small--It will cost you a lot to start over with a larger system. If too large, your ongoing maintenance costs can be quite high (battery replacement, pumps/boilers, etc.).

Your thoughts?

-Bill

waynefromnscanada · April 2012

Re: 120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

Really hate to have to say it, but I've seen this happen several times before. Final reports from the homeowners has always been the same: "If I had had ANY idea of the cost and work involved, I would have torn down the old house and started from new, doing it the right way from the start, would have been way cheaper and I would have had a new house".

BB. · April 2012

Re: 120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

In some areas, the upgrade in structural may be worth a new home too (mine is earthquake--old homes get knocked off of foundations here; in Florida/Southern US, it may be Hurricanes/tornado wind damage).

However--The local building codes (construction taxes/sewer/power/school/fees and property tax laws) here make building new homes on existing lots much more expensive than gutting existing homes. Home insurance will still charge more for old/gutted homes than new builds. Then there is the "Historical" nature of a 120 year old home vs "its garbage".

A common thing to do here is let the roof/sump pump fail and get water damage inside for a year or so--Then they will let you "build a new home" without all the "new home rules/costs". A "lot safer" than letting the home "burn down" by "accident".

-Bill

solar_dave · April 2012

Re: 120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

How much domyoumplan on spending? Your first priority should be to,get your conservation hat on and do,every thing you can to save energy, it is usually much cheaper to save a watt than generate a watt. Once that is done and you have a good handle on your consumption you can start to plan alternative energy solutions.

icarus · April 2012

Re: 120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

the very first thing I would do, is do a GOOD energy audit, and upgrade all the systems to be as efficient as possible. Conservation is your cheapest energy dollar,, by far. Insulate, take advantage of passive solar gain, use plantings to help reduce cooling (and heating) loads, then, and only then consider alternative energy. Just so you know, taking the house "off grid" is a very much more expensive way to go, as a battery based PV system will cost about twice as much as a similar sized grid tie system, and produce about 1/2 as much power, net/net. Solar hot water is much more bang for your buck than PV.

Welcome to the forum, keep in touch, and good luck,

Icarus

peakbagger · April 2012

Re: 120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

I also recomend an energy audit and thorough inspection. After you have done the basics, taking care of air leaks, possibly spraying the sills and maybe reworking the windows, odds are you are looking at entirely new mechanical systems (water, sewer, and definitely electrical). All of these are a lot easier if you remove interior walls which allows you to pump them full of foam after you have dealt with the inevitable rot or mold conditions you will encounter in a 120 year old house. Most likely you have a ballon frame and would want to install appropriate fireblocking. In theory the energy audit will identify the "best bang for the buck projects". Replacing a heating system with solar is a major undertaking even with a tight house and good luck insuring a house without a "conventional heating backup". Currently if you insist on going solar for space heating, after you have spent the money to tighten up the house to superenergy efficient then consider ground source geothermal (whihc means hot air ducts need to be in place instead of baseboard. Most would elect to install a wood boiler with heat storage or a pellet stove keeping the gas boiler for backup. As for off grid, that is unfortunately throwing away a lot of good money that could be used far better elsewhere.

The depressing part is that the cost to do a major energy retrofit is potentially going to be 25 to 75 thousand dollar range. If its a case where you plan to "buried in the backyard" and dont care about resale and you are not in a historic district which limits what you can do to the exterior then it might be something to go for, but for the vast majority of folks they will do the basic energy improvements and live with what they got.

120 year old home I want to convert to alternative energy need help

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