newbie starting the fun...

leonphelps
leonphelps Registered Users Posts: 5
Hello,

I am planning on easing into solar panel. Tired of the high utility bills. Basically want to slowly wean myself off of the grid.

I have four Sharp ND-224UC9BX polycrystalline 224 panels on the way. My thought was to get them to charge a 48v system and leave a grid tie inverter on constantly at about 600 watts. With any luck I should be able to slow my meter down pretty well and cut my electric bill down.

I was planning on purchasing four yellow top optima batteries. They will give me 48v and are sealed agm batteries. This means maintenance free. :) I have blue top batteries in use for ten plus years.

I was thinking of combining the wires from the panels into a solar combiner similar to this. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-Array-DC-Combiner-Box-/150557618574?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230deef18e It will be fused and be an easy mount close to my panels.

I would then need a solar charge controller. Looking for a recommendation.

I am guessing the charge controller would wire battery to the inverter and also include the solar combiner to it. Am I correct?

thanks for any guidance.

Comments

  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: newbie starting the fun...

    Welcome to the forum!

    It should be noted at the out set that battery based PV is a very expensive proposition and is a very poor way of reducing your power bill. Battery based PV cost about twice as much as grid tie and comes at about half the efficiency, leading to power that is at least four times as expensive as grid tie. ( it gets worse as battery prices go up, while PV prices go down.)

    If you are really looking to lower your utility bill, do every an all conservtion you can, then spend your money on building a grid tie system.

    Tiny

    PS in addition to being more expensive and less efficient, battery based systems have a vt finite life span, making them even more expensive in the long run. The grid is truly your freeing, an is ones sense your biggest, cheapest battery!

    t
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: newbie starting the fun...

    There is no way to "ease" into solar in a cost effective way--especially if you are doing a battery based system.

    For Off Grid / Hybrid systems, you need to define your loads and how many hours per day you will run them (Watts, Watts*Hours)... Plus the season(s) you will be using the power (winter) and if there will be genset or other backup power source.

    For Grid Tied systems--There are "micro-inverters" that allow you to, if you wanted, add one panel at a time. However, because of building/utility permits/inspections each time you were to add a panel/inverter connection, doing a few panels at time is not usually financially practical.

    Anyway--before you purchase a bunch of material--you should really understand your current loads, look into "extreme" conservation, then design the GT or Off Grid/Hybrid system that will meet your needs.

    Also, another good way to save money for people that like Do it Yourself protects is Solar Thermal. Hot Water systems lend themselves very nicely to home built collectors, conversion of hot water heaters to storage tanks, etc... But, there is a bit of plumbing/pump issues to take care of (and service over time).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: newbie starting the fun...

    I "eased" into solar over ten years ago, doing it bit by bit, slowly learning what I could do with it.
    Now, after the fact, I see that "easing" into solar has cost me far more than if I had "done it right" in the first place. And, I've painted myself into a corner, locking myself into a 12 volt system, when it should now be at least 24 volts.
    On the other hand there's no way I could ever have afforded to install what I have now in one go, nor would I have ever done it. Period. So for me, even though it cost me dearly in financial terms (far more than if I had "done it right" from the start), for me, easing into it made it possible. In hindsight, knowing what I know now, I could have saved a ton of money and ended up with a better system if I had done things differently. But I started out small, never dreaming that the system would grow to the point where one day I'd be living off grid. But as time went by, the project became addictive, demanding more and more, until finally, I think I've gone as far as I'm going to.
    The whole thing has co$t me dearly, but the satisfaction is beyond words and I'm not one bit sorry I did it, only that I could have saved a lot of money had I done it right from the start.
  • Eric L
    Eric L Solar Expert Posts: 262 ✭✭
    Re: newbie starting the fun...

    Maybe just start this as a hobby system and see if you can power a circuit or two in your house, that way you can learn and enjoy it without worrying about it saving you money (which it won't do at all, as others note above). If you're determined to upgrade latter, wiring the battery bank at 48v might be a good idea if you can afford the extra batteries, so that if you do upgrade later, you might be able to use the same inverter. However, it will likely cost more now to get a 48v inverter (these are usually larger and more expensive). Also, you'll have to be careful with the inverter purchase because many 48v inverters have a minimum battery size they need, which means you could easily wind up with more battery than your panels could serve.

    I'd research everything thoroughly before buying any more equipment, especially those batteries which might not be ideal for this application.
  • leonphelps
    leonphelps Registered Users Posts: 5
    Re: newbie starting the fun...

    So everyone suggests a grid tie system. This basically includes the solar array then an inverter to AC to use my solar energy during the day?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: newbie starting the fun...

    It depends...

    If you want to save money, Solar GT is, hands down, about 1/10th the cost for power of a pure off-grid solar power system. Most people pay between $0.10 to $0.20 per kWH for grid power... Off grid solar+battery power costs on the order of $1-$2+ per kWH by the time you take all of the hardware+batteries (plus replacements over the life of the system) into account.

    Remember, Batteries only last ~6-10 years for most people, and you should plan on replacing your electronics (inverters, charge controllers, etc.) after around 10 years...

    For folks that need backup power (say you get ice storms, wind storms, etc.) because you lose power for weeks/month or more at a time--Hybrid solar power (basically a system that is capable of both GT and Off Grid power operation) will be on the order of $0.45 per kWH (remember these are all very rough estimates for power costs to give you an overall idea of what you are looking at--Your system may cost more or less).

    However--Grid Tied also requires that your utility supports some sort of Net Metered power (1 year net metering is a typical plan... Any excess power you generate is placed into a savings account for you to draw out later in the year--You can even go negative in the account too and replace the power later).

    Your home wiring/power usage with GT Solar is unchanged. You do not need to do any "switching" to use GT power for your A/C system, etc. Basically you install the GT Array+GT Inverter to your main panel (may need to install a larger main power panel--depending on existing panel and your GT install). If your GT system generates more power than you use, your power meter "spins backwards". If you use more power than you are generating, your meter spins forwards. Generally, your meter would spin backwards during the day and forward at night. And at the end of a month, your "net power usage" is near zero.

    If your utility does not support Net Metered power, then you really need thing the whole going solar very carefully. It will be very difficult to "save money" with any sort of off-grid solar system. And if you need emergency backup power--Many times, a good generator is a better solution than off grid solar for rare power outages.

    In any case, extreme conservation is usually the best place to start... Lots of ceiling insulation, double pane windows, in wall insulation, reviewing the power usage of any older appliances heating/AC systems, etc.... There are a lot of very good solutions out there today to conserve power.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: newbie starting the fun...
    BB. wrote: »
    It depends...

    If you want to save money, Solar GT is, hands down, about 1/10th the cost for power of a pure off-grid solar power system. Most people pay between $0.10 to $0.20 per kWH for grid power... Off grid solar+battery power costs on the order of $1-$2+ per kWH by the time you take all of the hardware+batteries (plus replacements over the life of the system) into account.

    Remember, Batteries only last ~6-10 years for most people, and you should plan on replacing your electronics (inverters, charge controllers, etc.) after around 10 years...

    For folks that need backup power (say you get ice storms, wind storms, etc.) because you lose power for weeks/month or more at a time--Hybrid solar power (basically a system that is capable of both GT and Off Grid power operation) will be on the order of $0.45 per kWH (remember these are all very rough estimates for power costs to give you an overall idea of what you are looking at--Your system may cost more or less).

    However--Grid Tied also requires that your utility supports some sort of Net Metered power (1 year net metering is a typical plan... Any excess power you generate is placed into a savings account for you to draw out later in the year--You can even go negative in the account too and replace the power later).

    Your home wiring/power usage with GT Solar is unchanged. You do not need to do any "switching" to use GT power for your A/C system, etc. Basically you install the GT Array+GT Inverter to your main panel (may need to install a larger main power panel--depending on existing panel and your GT install). If your GT system generates more power than you use, your power meter "spins backwards". If you use more power than you are generating, your meter spins forwards. Generally, your meter would spin backward during the day and forward at night. And at the end of a month, your "net power usage" is near zero.

    If your utility does not support Net Metered power, then you really need thing the whole going solar very carefully. It will be very difficult to "save money" with any sort of off-grid solar system. And if you need emergency backup power--Many times, a good generator is a better solution than off grid solar for rare power outages.

    In any case, extreme conservation is usually the best place to start... Lots of ceiling insulation, double pane windows, in wall insulation, reviewing the power usage of any older appliances heating/AC systems, etc.... There are a lot of very good solutions out there today to conserve power.

    -Bill

    This quote should be required reading for all newbies! It succinctly, and simply explains the basic diffence between grid tie and off grid PV. Too many people thinks that going solar means going off grid, not realizing tht in most cases that is a "dumb" way to approach RE. Most of us that are off grid are off grid because the grid is too far to be practical. (in my case way too far!). We a not off grid to save money. In truth, the 1 kwh that I use daily would be much cheaper to generate with the Honda EU.

    Tony