Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water heat

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Ross
Ross Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Hello: This may sound like an odd question - but does any know if the inverter and charge controller (and all their associated equipment) can be installed in the same room where the gas/propane water heater is located. I am assuming that the batteries could not be installed where the WH is located.

Thanks

Ross
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    All you have mentioned are within 15feet of each other in my basement. Mind you the batteries are in a power vented box. Are you thinking gas code problems?

    The only thing that sparks are the gen relays in the inverter (that I have seen).

    Ral;ph
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #3
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Is this in a house or separate out building? I would be very concerned with exhaust gases from a broken pipe in a home. Although I have seem an RV style generator installed in the crawl space of a friend's home using natural gas a fuel.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    I don't think he is looking to install a genny in the house,, only putting an inverter and charge controller in the same space as a gas water heater/furnace.

    Personally, I wouldn't have any trouble with it.

    Tony
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  • snuffy
    snuffy Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water
    Ross wrote: »
    Hello: This may sound like an odd question - but does any know if the inverter and charge controller (and all their associated equipment) can be installed in the same room where the gas/propane water heater is located. I am assuming that the batteries could not be installed where the WH is located.

    Thanks

    Ross
    The danger would lay in the potential for a gas leak into the room. If there's a gas leak into the room I'd be worried about the gas water heater igniting it not the electronics equipment. A gas detector would be a good idea.
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  • Ross
    Ross Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Can inverters & controllers be installed in the same rm as gas/propane H2O heater

    Thanks for the replys.

    This room/closet is where the direct vent propane water heater is. It is inside the cabin with two outside walls. There is space for the inverter and associated equip. The electrical sub panel is also in this room Good clearance in front of panel. The batteries would be outside this space and located in an adjacent area under an enclosed stairway. It may be a question of contacting the local inspector to make sure ahead of time.

    Ross
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #7
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Should not be a problem as long as you meet your local code for propane appliances and where "electrical" panels need to be installed (usually, free access xx by yy inches with nothing in front on floor).

    I don't know here I got the generator from... :blush:

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Especially if your direct vent water hter is or can be done with sealed combustion.

    Unless there is a gas leak (and then you would have major other problems!) there is little source for ignition from an inverter or CC.

    Batteries are another issue, as I am sure you know.

    Tony
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  • Ross
    Ross Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Tony:

    The combustion area is sealed. So perhaps I have a fighting chance of putting it in there.

    Ross
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  • Jim45D
    Jim45D Solar Expert Posts: 102 ✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Practically the same issue came up when I was having my main propane tank filled on my motorhome. The tank is located approx. 3 feet from the battery compartment, both are open from underneath. The inverter (inside) is located approx. 2 feet away. The direct filling wasn't so much of an issue as when the hose was disconnected. It released a lot of gas fumes in the process. This explanation is what I got from the gas company. "Not to worry, the gaseous fumes are heavier than air, therefore finding the most direct path to the ground, or lowest place. Unless you have a battey terminal arching sparks....there is no problem." This was 9 years ago, many refills since.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Ross,

    Who are you worried about telling you you can't do this? The electrical permit authority? The building dept? or the Gas company?

    Find a chapter and verse code book that tells you you can't. I have never seen it in the NEC (not that I am anywhere near an expert, especially in the newest NEC) UBC. I know little of the International Plumbing code, and it MAY have something to say about gas piping.

    Like I said, I would see absolutely no problem with inverters and/or CC in relative close proximity to Propane or Natural gas line or appliance.

    Tony
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water
    icarus wrote: »
    I would see absolutely no problem with inverters and/or CC in relative close proximity to Propane or Natural gas line or appliance.

    Tony

    No more than anything else electrical; water pump, freezer, light switch, light bulb, radio, you name it. You can't be expected to stop living just because you have a propane or NG appliance. If such appliances were so dangerous they wouldn't be permitted inside homes.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water
    Jim45D wrote: »
    Practically the same issue came up when I was having my main propane tank filled on my motorhome. The tank is located approx. 3 feet from the battery compartment, both are open from underneath. The inverter (inside) is located approx. 2 feet away. The direct filling wasn't so much of an issue as when the hose was disconnected. It released a lot of gas fumes in the process. This explanation is what I got from the gas company. "Not to worry, the gaseous fumes are heavier than air, therefore finding the most direct path to the ground, or lowest place. Unless you have a battery terminal arching sparks....there is no problem." This was 9 years ago, many refills since.

    Propane is heavier than air and will collect in low areas. NG is lighter than air and will seek the highest points to collect, or escape. Firefighters know that if there's a house explosion due to a leak, it's easy to tell which it was. Propane explosion tends to blow the walls out at the bottom. NG tends to blow the roof off, or the walls out next to the roof.
    BTW I was once filling a motor home propane tank for a customer, and when I disconnected the filler hose, the filler check valve on the motor home failed to properly close and sprayed liquid propane until I got a square end screwdriver, stuck it in the hole and gave it a sharp inward slap. That popped the valve shut and we could then send the fire department back home. I wouldn't go near it though until the FD was set up with a charged line ready to go. Goes without saying I had full rubber gloves on, minis 40F liquid spraying on your hands hurts like hell. :p
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  • Ross
    Ross Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Thanks everyone for the great responses.

    There is no gas company - just my propane storage tank outside. I was concerned about what the bldg Dept/inspecto might have to say about what I wanted to do. I have a couple location options and prefer the one where the WH is located. I am trying to plan ahead and know my options and be ready when I talk to the Bldg Dept. Once the location is determined I should be able to decide on the appropriate equipment to purchase and haul up to the location. Solar and the correct electrical things are not easy obtainable near my cabin area - so anything out of the ordinary means a long long drive to get it. Construction on my project can't begin until June or so due to winter snow conditions - BUT the planning can start now!

    Thanks again

    Ross
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    When in doubt, call thbuilding dept and talk to the inspector. Like I said, i know of no reason to prohibit it.

    T.
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  • Ross
    Ross Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Thanks Tony!

    I'll give the inspector a call and make sure before I plan everything out for array location, controller/inverterbattery locations, conduit, wiring runs, and battery

    Ross
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  • Ross
    Ross Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Tony: Here is the update regarding the inspector conversation. I can install the inverter and controller in the same room as the direct vent water heater as long as I maintain the appropriate clearances in front, sides and vertical to the location of the equipment. The batteries would have to be in the adjacent area under the stairway in a battery box and vented to the outside since in a living space. I could also install the batteries outside on an adjacent wall - but is not a good idea for winter time as all snow piles up in that area coming off the roof to about 7 feet or so. There is not much extra room in the WH area to put batteries and maintain clearances. The other option I have is a shed that is located about 2/3rds from the proposed array location and to the side with another 1/3rd to the cabin. This shed is uninsulated and was constructed and allowed by the permitting authority without any permit but could not have any electrical. But, it seems that if I permit the solar system with the shed as the inverter, controller, and battery location I can use the shed. I would just have to then install an underground conduit 120v or 120/240v feed from the inverter to the sub panel inside the cabin. There is no outside electrical meter panel since to electrical utility within 5-6 miles.

    So now I have a couple of options to look into.

    Thanks to all that have helped out.

    Ross
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Can inverts and controllers be installed in the same room as a gas/propane water

    Consider installing the batteries under the stair, a useful use of a difficult space, but install the batteries on a stout cart with industrial casters, and enough wire to roll the entire bank out so that you can work on them. Mine live under my bench, in a box with blue board foam on the sides and top to insulate and keep the Zepher vent fan quiet.

    I can roll the whole rig out to water the batteries and check connections and SG.
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