Need big time help

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Ok, so my husband and I bought some land in Northern Nevada, and on it was a ton of trash. One of the many treasures we found was a create that had a Absolyte IIP Battery in it. It is a 100A-33 and we think there are three of them together.

This is the first web site that I have found, that seems like it has the people smart enough to help us. When we found the battery we thought fantastic, we can stay off grid, and not shell out $3800+ to the electric company just for a transformer, however, although we are smart people, and do almost all our work ourselves, this is one area that we can not figure out.

How do we tell if the battery is good, is it charged, if yes, how do we hook it up and use it, how do we re-charge it? Any help would be beyond great. We have to small sons ages 6 and 3, and feel this would be great for them as well.

You can e-mail me or even call us on our cell phones:

Rod 775-537-8117
Marcie 775-537-5172
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Need big time help

    Welcome to the forum.

    We might as well get right down to the bad news: there's almost no possibility that the battery (or batteries) is any good. If it's just been left sitting for who-knows-how-long without being kept up it will probably be scrap metal. These batteries are sealed, so you won't be able to check specific gravity (the "acid test" of batteries :p ) and automotive-type load testers will not give you much reliable or accurate information.

    The good news is that you are probably right that paying for utility hook-up may be more expensive than an off-grid solar power system. But you should definitely find out exactly how much the grid install will cost first, so you have something to compare to.

    At least Nevada has lots of sun. If you're up a mountain the high elevation is good for solar production too. The desert heat isn't, though.

    Plan, plan, plan. It may be a big headache, but the more "what ifs" you look at the more likely you'll get the house that works for you. Conservation is your friend no matter what the energy source, and will give you a better return on the dollar than production.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Need big time help

    most likely the batteries are trash as well, batteries require to be constantly charged to stay good. The only way the battery might be OK is if they never had electrolyte put in them.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,642 admin
    #4
    Re: Need big time help

    Here are some threads to read about "old" batteries:

    Low rest voltage on GNB absolyte IIP cells
    Sulfated Lifeline Concorde AGM Batteries

    In general, batteries that have sat (no charging or over charging) for >6 months (flooded cell) and >1 year (AGM/Sealed) are generally too sulfated to be worth trying to recover. For flooded cell batteries, if the plates are exposed to air, frequently the batteries are not worth recovering either.

    It is possible for deep cycle batteries (flooded cell) with thick plates that you can sometimes through heavy recharging (lots of equalization) and/or even mechanically shaking the batteries (one person here even takes them for a ride on 20+ miles of dirt road) to shed the sulfate (an insulating material) off the plates.

    Otherwise, you will not usually have much success in recovering such batteries.

    There are a few batteries (forklift/traction type and single cell 2volt batteries) where you can find a mix of good and bad cells -- and jumper out/remove the failed cells and put the working cells together into a 12/24/48 volt battery string. A few people here have had good success doing that (he had 36 volt forklift batteries and could get 24 volts worth of good cells out of them and jumper around the failed cells--and keep a few extra good cells in reserve too).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Need big time help

    Wow! This is going to be a difficult one, like messaging a Doctor from the wilderness and asking how do I successfully remove my child's appendix and have her live?
    First off, how long have the batteries been sitting/laying around? They self-discharge if not actively kept charged and if left discharged for more than a very few days, they proceed to get ruined. Then you need to have a multi meter and know how to use it. Beyond that, it gets very complicated and if you think $3800 is expensive and you plan on living off grid with more than a couple of small LED of CFL lights, you ain't $een nothing yet. $$$
    Do you want to have a fridge? Freezer? Microwave? Water pump? Electric hot water?etc etc?
    We need to know your expectations so we're all on the same page and not running madly off in all directions. :D
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Need big time help

    the guys are probably right that they aren't any good, but you never know as people discard good things too. you can start by getting a voltage reading off of each battery. the lower the voltage the less likely it is recoverable. the manufacturer may shed more light to the voltage readings you get, but i can guarantee that if it's 10.5v or lower it is most likely shot and even to 11.5v it would be somewhat iffy, but you may try a charge to them if in the iffy range and then get a load test done or try one yourself.

    even if the batteries show to be good you would need a means of supplying power to charge them in an off grid configuration and this will incur quite a cost. as was suggested, a comparison between the proposed off grid system with that of the grid transformer and drop lines to a service entrance cb box should be made. if you would have need of 120vac power in the off grid system then the expense of an inverter is warranted and that should be a sine wave type if any inductive loads such as fans, compressors, pumps, etc are used as loads.

    as batteries tend to be a large expense, do know they aren't the only expense for off grid setups. off course it tends to be difficult in figuring this as once a grid connection is made then you are privileged to pay a monthly bill to them. gt solar can offset that without batteries being involved and therefore there would be no provision for outages should they occur. some gt systems can accommodate batteries, but with an efficiency drop. now you can charge batteries with a generator, but that's the cost of the charger, generator, and gasoline and many of us will recommend having a generator to back up any off grid system as stuff happens. an example is the closed lows that have been coming through this year for my area. they are slow moving and i have currently been sunless for about a week now.:grr
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Need big time help
    niel wrote: »
    they are slow moving and i have currently been sunless for about a week now.:grr

    Me too. The Honda 2000 is running up the hours. It has surpassed 2,000 hours and looks like it will be challenging the 1000's record. Obviously solar panels are something you install to drive the sun away. :p

    BTW, I haven't used the Honda EU1000i in two years. I put gas in it the other day, pulled the rope six times; it ran. Not bad for a generator with over 6,000 hours on it. :D
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Need big time help
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Obviously solar panels are something you install to drive the sun away. :p

    gee, i thought that was washing your car to drive the sun away. ok, it looks like washing the car is to drive it away for a day, so is installing pvs to drive the sun away for a week?:confused::roll::p
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Need big time help
    niel wrote: »
    gee, i thought that was washing your car to drive the sun away. ok, it looks like washing the car is to drive it away for a day, so is installing pvs to drive the sun away for a week?:confused::roll::p
    No, washing your car is what brings on the rain. Here in central Texas we are under Stage 2 water restrictions because of the drought we are in, so it's actually illegal to wash your car. Catch-22.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Need big time help
    ggunn wrote: »
    No, washing your car is what brings on the rain. Here in central Texas we are under Stage 2 water restrictions because of the drought we are in, so it's actually illegal to wash your car. Catch-22.

    ok. i'll trade you 3 days of my rain for a week of sun.8)
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Need big time help

    I only live about 80 or so miles north of Niel. My local tv station, Youngstown, Ohio reported that this sept was the wettest on record. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Need big time help
    niel wrote: »
    ok. i'll trade you 3 days of my rain for a week of sun.8)
    If I could make that deal I would. Ten times with an option for more.

    In nearly 31 years living in Austin, I've never seen anything like this past (and with the cold front that moved in over the weekend, I sincerely hope that it is indeed past) summer. I don't know the final count of how many 100+ degree days we had this year, but it shattered any previous record. We haven't had significant rain since, I dunno, March? All over town there are full size trees, not to mention thousands of young trees and shrubs, that are dead, casualties of the drought. My "lawn" is a layer of dead leaves over dead weeds and bare dirt, and next spring I will see how many trees I lost in my heavily wooded back yard.

    I know all you guys out in AZ are thinking, "Welcome to my world", but this is not what I signed up for when I moved here.

    end whining
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  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Need big time help
    niel wrote: »
    ok. i'll trade you 3 days of my rain for a week of sun.8)

    Gladly. The situation here in the Dallas area is acute. I think this round of drought will cause significant permanent shifts in policy with respect to water usage. Finally the Dallas area will be forced to implement water conservation measures long required in other areas of the state of TX, i.e. Austin.

    With this lifetime drought event so far, it's really unfortunate for many people whose homes have burned down. Unlike areas in AZ and CA, where homes are required to be laid out, and vegitation planted or removed in such a manner to recognize fire risk, no such thing exists here. Thus, with unprecedented fires, people are losing their home with so much vegetation so close to their homes.

    In the Dallas area we haven't had a good solid dark cloudy day in 4.5 months. Looking at the below chart of my daily peak kWh output, we've had maybe a handful of partially cloudy days with little or no rain - that's it - and for these few days half output was all the clouds could muster.

    DailySolarEnergyProduction2.png


    Best regards,

    Bill
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