interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

The Original Ralph
The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
and of some of the inverters out there

was researching UPS's to replace the power hog i've got under the desk right now and came across this

cariboucoot, suspect you've already done this to your gen, but it might serve some to know - it basically re-enforces (being electronically illiterate) what i've intuitively felt, ie stay with a quality name in a gen
- kind of a drastic difference between the honda and no-name gens

http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/

fwiw
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Comments

  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

    Very interesting Ralph. Thanks for sharing.
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  • Polychrest
    Polychrest Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

    Great stuff. Thanks!
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  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

    Interesting photos. Thanks for sharing.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

    The images of the cheap UPS units show a square wave; no steps at all as you'd expect to see in a "good" MSW inverter!

    I'd like to see manufacturers put this kind of info in their specifications: nice screen shot of the actual waveform. This little experiment demonstrates exactly why they don't! :p

    Thanks, Original Ralph; you can bet this link is going to be referred to in future. Nothing like a picture to explain the complicated things. :D
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

    a small additional tidbit - found an independent testing lab, that did some comparison evaluations of a lot of the UPS units out there - I was looking for mfgrs other than the well known ones (APC, etc) and was surprised there's actually a lot of them, catering to the commercial market (as well as the industrial/military markets).

    but up pops the power hog i've got sitting here, and son of a bmt, it ranked top of the pile in 3 of the evaluations, and even the evaluator noted the considerable gap in it's performance compared to the others. And more interesting, the replacement model(s) from APC, don't meet the same specs the earlier models did.

    Sure makes it hard to get rid of this thing - but i know there has to be an efficient one out there producing pure sine wave current but it's way more backup than i need or care to support with a monthly $11 electric pmt.

    In case anyone's interested http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/ups-test-dec2k2/

    am looking at the cyberforce units, they indicate pure sine wave with an interesting "green" feature - when they sense no load, they go into some sort of sleep mode, and have an LCD screen showing a lot of measurements, including current being consumed. But would like to see a test or eval like the independent lab did.

    Does anyone have a Consumers Reports online subscript? do they show the ossiliscope pix of the current being produced?

    Mine's an APC "Smart-UPS", Smart-1000, model SUA1000. There's a newer model with a similiar model name/number but it's a rack mounted unit.
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  • MiamiSunrise
    MiamiSunrise Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭
    #7
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

    Cool! I never knew the APC SmartUPS series were pure sinewave. I guess this would explain why it worked with my stereo without causing a hum in the audio, whereas the Tripp-Lite one I had before made it buzz noticeably.

    I am totally mystified about that AC waveform. How on earth does that generator manage to even create that much noise? Bad brushes/commutators? Yuck!

    The Honda has never caused anything I've run off it to skip a beat, it's been perfect. I've even tried to make it drop out by switching a large load off, letting the eco throttle back off, then switching it back on... there's a very short momentary glitch at worst, no worse than you'd see in a house when the central A/C compressor kicks in.

    The DC battery charging output on the Honda is indeed an unregulated mess, I can confirm that. A customer boiled their batteries with one. I've wondered before how well a PWM charge controller like a Xantrex / Schneider C35 would handle that... maybe add a computer grade filter cap or two if the pulsation from the generator output messes with the controller. Using it straight up off the output, does this mean you get an unregulated battery charger plus free pulse desulfator at no extra charge? (Still, eww.)

    Alpha Telecom has the Alphagen series out now which are essentially a 3000 watt Honda EU in a ruggedized form factor, and a 36 / 48 VDC lead-acid battery float charger builtin instead of the AC inverter. Output is via an Anderson PowerPole connector on the front, voltage is selectable via a switch inside the engine compartment, and it has a safety system that will protect it against being hooked up to bad/missing batteries. This can be overridden to allow it to charge batteries that have been pulled down to zero volts. Last I checked they were rather pricey, but I think they seem to be worth it. The unit we were playing with at Sun was pull start, but I remember seeing electric start versions in Alpha's catalog, including propane powered versions!
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator

    I've been using a scope on my inverters & generator for a while also. I have a Yamaha EF2400iS inverter type generator. Very clean power, cleaner than the grid power at my house.

    Grid:
    grid1compare.jpg

    Generator:
    gen1compare.jpg

    Other tests of this generator here (along with a look at the DC output): http://www.2manytoyz.com/yamaha2400.html

    A pic of the waveform from a Vector MSW (400W) inverter:
    scope.jpg

    From a Xantrex 1800W Prosine inverter:
    1609.jpg

    From an old Tripplite squarewave inverter:
    upswaveform.jpg
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  • The Original Ralph
    The Original Ralph Solar Expert Posts: 50 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: interesting scope shots of a honda eu2000 generator
    2manytoyz wrote: »
    I've been using a scope on my inverters & generator for a while also. I have a Yamaha EF2400iS inverter type generator. Very clean power, cleaner than the grid power at my house.

    Grid:
    grid1compare.jpg

    Generator:
    gen1compare.jpg

    Other tests of this generator here (along with a look at the DC output): http://www.2manytoyz.com/yamaha2400.html

    A pic of the waveform from a Vector MSW (400W) inverter:
    scope.jpg

    From a Xantrex 1800W Prosine inverter:
    1609.jpg

    From an old Tripplite squarewave inverter:
    upswaveform.jpg


    it seems to keep coming back to the known names or major mfgrs (like the yamaha) are delivering quality current
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