Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho · September 2011

Hello,
Does anybody out there have any new info about gas ovens that don't have a glow bar or other heavy electrical ignition systems?
I keep coming up against this road block when it comes to an oven.

The Mrs' wants an oven...and I kinda like lasagna...so does anyone out there have a solution to our dilemma?...besides a mud brick wood burning one?
(I have already built one and loved it, but not all that convenient when it's -30 outside.)

The only name I keep coming across is Peerless (Premier), but I keep reading bad things about the build quality.
Do you have one?
Do you like it?
Or is it garbage?

Thanks for your input.

Blackcherry04 · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

We built in one of these a couple years ago. The oven is about 6" narrower than a regular size oven, but works great for the two of us. I keep the pilot lights turned off and wife lights it manually.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/magic-chef-22-gas-range-black/35476

Ralph Day · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Hi Morhpo
I have the Premier Peerless and am satisfied. The build quality is fine for the price. If you're paying $thousands, maybe not, but for under $800 then it's fine.

I got mine through a local propane supplier, no box store carried them. A couple of out of the box issues. The thermocouple for the oven had shaken loose from it's anchor point...easy to fix, just re-align. One "spud" the little oriface for one burner was cross threaded...just a little socket to remove and replace. You could see the flame pattern was not correct when lit (before repair). These little things would be a pain if you called for a service call or had to return, but were easily remedied.

\overall, a satisfied customer.

Ralph

Dave Angelini · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Ralph Day wrote: »

Hi Morhpo
I have the Premier Peerless and am satisfied. The build quality is fine for the price. If you're paying $thousands, maybe not, but for under $800 then it's fine.

I got mine through a local propane supplier, no box store carried them. A couple of out of the box issues. The thermocouple for the oven had shaken loose from it's anchor point...easy to fix, just re-align. One "spud" the little oriface for one burner was cross threaded...just a little socket to remove and replace. You could see the flame pattern was not correct when lit (before repair). These little things would be a pain if you called for a service call or had to return, but were easily remedied.

\overall, a satisfied customer.

Ralph

and there is the Pro line of Pierless that are near 1K$ that look upscale.
I had been told by them that because of federal regulations they were to discontinue the mercury based oven system they use and be force to glow plug it. Their website seems to indicate that they are recycling the mercury and maybe have found a way to continue their incredible system. Anyone want to check this further?

It basically is a spark lit pilot that stays on during baking and goes off when you turn off the oven. This allows a match to be used if there is no power which is a green light for offgrid or people who lose power and want to bake.

Almost all my people use them! They do have room for improvement as some of my most decerning customers want ceramic tops for an absolute low maintenance requirement. Nice old American company.

Cariboocoot · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Dave brings up an important point.

The "mercury based system" refers to the thermo-coupler used to detect heat and shut off the gas if no flame is present. The all-electronic stoves use electrical sensors and control valves. When a thermo-coupler fails, it fails "off". I'm not so sure the electronic systems will default that way, because components in a circuit can potentially fail to "off" or "on". Getting rid of that "unsafe mercury" may lead to greater potential for gas asphyxiation and explosion.

Hopefully not. I have never examined one of the new control circuits so I don't know how they're handling the situation. I'm just suspicious of the constant parade of "this is better" that so often turns out not to be. It's what happens when you get older.

And yes I have one of the standing pilot units. It works fine. You just have to get use to the noises made by stamped metal components expanding and contracting as it heats up and cools down. :roll:

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Hmmm?

Okay, lots of people with the same "problem".

If I was back in Latin america I could get something with no problems...I even remember seeing nice 36" stainless steel slide ins that didn't need any kind of electrical power re-ignition systems .
Damn safety freaks!

So the peerless is ok...but not great.

I thought about an RV stove, but the wife really wants a proper range...and I don't blame her. I have put her through a lot on my little off grid mission.
But I have considered an RV stove/oven with the stove elements turned off and hidden under the counter. Then I could just have the oven part.
I'd install a nice stainless 36" cooktop in the counter and she will stop giving me the evil eye...hopefully.

Hmmm?

Okay,
thanks everyone...I will keep looking around and checking in to see if anyone has some more advice.

Thanks a lot.

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Okay...I had a momentary: "my brain is going to work" moment

What about Yachts and sailboats?...they must have fancy stainless steal appliances.

Here is a company in Canada that makes such a thing as an oven that does not have a glow bar...as far as I can tell anyway.
Not cheap though...might be cheaper to add more panels and run a glow bar...hmmmm?

http://www.force10.com/gas_gimballed_5burner.html

ggunn · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho wrote: »

Hmmm?

Okay, lots of people with the same "problem".

If I was back in Latin america I could get something with no problems...I even remember seeing nice 36" stainless steel slide ins that didn't need any kind of electrical power re-ignition systems .
Damn safety freaks!

When I am in Mexico, I stock up on the half sized butane fireplace lighters without child protection that they sell there. They are great for lighting candles and things, and you don't have to contort your hands pushing one thing and pulling another to make them work. There are no children in my house, so no one is at risk.

PhilS · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

I have one of the Atwood RV range combinations in our RV.

I would NOT recommend it for a home. The oven is too small, and too small means uneven baking even IF there's sufficient room for whatever she's cooking.

When we had to replace our home oven I just got one with a glow bar. I wince when we turn it on but after preheating, it really is glowing only half the time. I've never put my kill-a-watt on it (why bother... gotta use the oven anyway). I am sure it uses in excess of 100w.

I can say that this oven has never meant the difference between having sufficient power capacity or having to start the generator. Yeah, it sucks power, but not every day and not the whole time the oven is on.

I attempted to find a gas oven without the glow bar and had no success, partly because we needed one to fit the old opening and most ovens were too wide by a few inches. THAT and the difficulty you are experiencing finding such an animal.

Phil

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

ggunn:

SAFETY SHMAFETY!

PhilS:

Do you mind if I ask the make and model of the range you purchased?
I am now in the middle of trying to squeeze the info out of the companies about their glow bars. (whether they are on full time or intermittently)

Thanks

PhilS · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho wrote: »

ggunn:

SAFETY SHMAFETY!

PhilS:

Do you mind if I ask the make and model of the range you purchased?
I am now in the middle of trying to squeeze the info out of the companies about their glow bars. (whether they are on full time or intermittently)

Thanks

I think Frigidaire. I have had to replace the glow bar once and learned more about it from an appliance repair forum.

The current flow through the glow bar is what energizes the fuel solenoid. First the glow bar starts to heat, then when resistance is low enough the gas turns on.

I doubt any of the ovens would keep the bar glowing all the time.

Phil

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Thanks!

I was just trying to figure out on the Fridgidaire website if they had had 300w or 1500w glow bars

okay....back to the intertube search...

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

As far as the peerless premier pro blah blah....
I am not looking to wow anybody with how cool looking my range is....(maybe my wife is) I simply don't want to buy a piece of junk.

Would any of you buy it again?

I wish I could have a look at one first hand.

Dave Angelini · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho wrote: »

Hmmm?

Okay, lots of people with the same "problem".

If I was back in Latin america I could get something with no problems...I even remember seeing nice 36" stainless steel slide ins that didn't need any kind of electrical power re-ignition systems .
Damn safety freaks!

So the peerless is ok...but not great.

I thought about an RV stove, but the wife really wants a proper range...and I don't blame her. I have put her through a lot on my little off grid mission.
But I have considered an RV stove/oven with the stove elements turned off and hidden under the counter. Then I could just have the oven part.
I'd install a nice stainless 36" cooktop in the counter and she will stop giving me the evil eye...hopefully.

Hmmm?

Okay,
thanks everyone...I will keep looking around and checking in to see if anyone has some more advice.

Thanks a lot.

How it he-- did you read that the Perrless/Premier is "OK and not great"? Look at the website. You can oder these from Lowes. You can look all you want but there is very little choice here. A glow plug oven will cycle on and off about 300 watts when the flame is on. For a large offgrid system this is no big deal and easily done by running generators.

If you want to minimize the energy you need and like to bake alot in the heart of winter, a glow plug oven is just a poor way to design! Good luck!

ggunn · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho wrote: »

ggunn:

SAFETY SHMAFETY!

Well, there's safety and then there's safety. Seat belts in cars? Sure. Guard rails on staircases? Absolutely. Fall protection for workers on rooftops? I'm for that.

But our litigious society has taken things to extremes, like a warning label on a hammer advising you that if you hit yourself over the head with it, it may cause injury. Wow, really?

Actually, I'm not opposed to "child protection" measures on sources of fire (although a study I heard about on the radio showed that most kids can figure out how to get around it), it's just that it's not needed in all cases.

Cariboocoot · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

ggunn wrote: »

Actually, I'm not opposed to "child protection" measures on sources of fire (although a study I heard about on the radio showed that most kids can figure out how to get around it), it's just that it's not needed in all cases.

When our first grandson started walking around we put "child guard" things on everything, including the front door knob. Darned if he wasn't the only one who could get the door open then!

Sometimes safety devices are good, sometimes they're just an expensive nuisance. This includes the latest regulations for installing arc-fault breakers for bedroom circuits, in my opinion. The ground-fault requirements for PV's would be another example of dubious value.

It's funny how so many generations managed to grow up without the government protecting them from every little hazard in life. And yet today people of all ages still get injured and killed in the normal course of life.

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Dave Sparks,

I have probably read every "customer review" on just about every stove out there and the peerless one just kept coming up as working fine, but the fit and finish was very problematic. Which I'm not all that concerned about myself, but when things do go wrong...and they always do...(don't even get me started on my yamaha generator woes right now)
I have no place locally that deals with Peerless.
I am several hundred miles away from the nearest Lowes, but an Electrolux dealer can be found in every direction in every small town around me.
A camp fire is starting to look good again.

As far as the safety mechanisms in place to keep us all alive....how in the heck are child safety mechanisms supposed to work?....have any of you sat and watched a kid plunk themselves down in front of a computer these days?
A 3 year old is likely to simply google the solution to breaking into the child proofed cabinet.

mikeo · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

It's funny how so many generations managed to grow up without the government protecting them from every little hazard in life. And yet today people of all ages still get injured and killed in the normal course of life.

Don't you really mean the Insurance Industry? They cause the government to mandate many safety requirements, is it for your protection, or their bottom line? Since you are the one paying for the protection features and it saves them on insurance payouts they are for it. If insurance companies had to foot the bill from their bottom lines for all protection features on appliances, I suspect we would have many fewer.

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Here is another one....

http://www.uniqueoffgrid.com/en-ca/Products/Product-Line-up_/Off-Grid-Ranges/Unique-30SS.html

techntrek · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Sometimes safety devices are good, sometimes they're just an expensive nuisance. This includes the latest regulations for installing arc-fault breakers for bedroom circuits, in my opinion.

Not to get OT, but why not arc-fault breakers? This is an upgrade I made a few years ago when I learned about them. Easy to swap out the breakers for an older home, not all that expensive, solves a known problem. I don't see why not.

mikeo · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Here is another one..

Has anyone checked this stove out?
http://www.vendio.com/stores/RvFirstChoice/item?lid=17067425&source=Vendio:Google%20Product%20Search

Its a bit small but shouldn't need electricity.

Cariboocoot · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

techntrek wrote: »

Not to get OT, but why not arc-fault breakers? This is an upgrade I made a few years ago when I learned about them. Easy to swap out the breakers for an older home, not all that expensive, solves a known problem. I don't see why not.

You live in a better country.
Up here the arc-fault breakers are 4X the price of standard breakers, and they trip when you try to run the vacuum or plug in a space heater.

Meanwhile over-loaded "lamp cord" extension cords continue to burn down houses. :roll:

Dave Angelini · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho wrote: »

Here is another one....

http://www.uniqueoffgrid.com/en-ca/Products/Product-Line-up_/Off-Grid-Ranges/Unique-30SS.html

This looks interesting Thanks! I will look at it further! It says there is no standing pilot for the stove top which is the same as the Premier. It does not say how the oven operates and I assume it is a spark lit pilot like the Premier. http://www.premierrange.com/rangeP30.php They sure look the same!

I think I have 30 customers (about) using the Pro models of Premier and they really have not had any problems other than damage in shipping. I have 2 of them myself. Not as nice as a GE profile but you do have to power the GE and in the depth of winter it is nice to bake all day and not worry about the clouds!

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

WOW, this is an amazing searching process...around and around I go.

I thought I had come to the conclusion that in the end I will just get a GE or Electrolux or...and just deal with the glow bar issue...I have to run the generator at some point and the batteries almost always need topping up so...
But then I start looking into models and I was amazed (probably shouldn't be) that ALL of them have a computer in them...that means they ARE going to go sideways quickly.
(exactly who are these people who need to have a "chicken nugget - wave touch preset" anyways.
I can find lots of high end models that have no computer....VIKING, THERMADOR, Blue star etc.
for 5...6...7 thousand dollars. Ya, thats not going to happen. (though I was drooling on the websites)

Why is it that GE or any one of these companies can't or won't make a simple range?
Just one of their ranges without a computer..they can even have the glow bars etc...
I read the forums and all I get are complaints about the computer.

SO, this brings me right back PEERLESS!
I really wish I could see one of these things.

Any other advice?

Dave Angelini · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho wrote: »

WOW, this is an amazing searching process...around and around I go.

I thought I had come to the conclusion that in the end I will just get a GE or Electrolux or...and just deal with the glow bar issue...I have to run the generator at some point and the batteries almost always need topping up so...
But then I start looking into models and I was amazed (probably shouldn't be) that ALL of them have a computer in them...that means they ARE going to go sideways quickly.
(exactly who are these people who need to have a "chicken nugget - wave touch preset" anyways.
I can find lots of high end models that have no computer....VIKING, THERMADOR, Blue star etc.
for 5...6...7 thousand dollars. Ya, thats not going to happen. (though I was drooling on the websites)

Why is it that GE or any one of these companies can't or won't make a simple range?
Just one of their ranges without a computer..they can even have the glow bars etc...
I read the forums and all I get are complaints about the computer.

SO, this brings me right back PEERLESS!
I really wish I could see one of these things.

Any other advice?

I was told by a GE engineer I know that when he looked into it there was testing that went on in the 80's and they found that Ladies were scared of the spark sound from an oven but not from the top burners????

The bottom line is both of these that we are talking about are Porcelain finished tops and while decent, will not stand up long term as well as some of the better units do. Not just Ceramic but others also. Ceramic is amazing in that 3 college males can use one for a year and not clean it. A maid can come in and in 30 minutes bring it back to showroom finish.

Dave Angelini · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Coot you are the man!

techntrek · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Have you tried calling the customer service lines for GE and other "cheaper" companies to see if they have any non-computer models?

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

""Ceramic is amazing in that 3 college males can use one for a year and not clean it. A maid can come in and in 30 minutes bring it back to showroom finish.""

I take it this is from personal experience!

Ahhh college....wait a second!

What were you doing cooking? Beer covers a bunch of food groups.

I have tried calling the customer service lines..I climbed into their telephone tree and went from branch to branch pushing buttons to try and get where I wanted to go..and in the end I have yet to get an actual person.

I tried to contact peerless, but nobody has returned my call or answered my e-mail.

Dave Angelini · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

Give Pierless some time. Most Corporations are not quick at this. GE will probably send you an E-mail and someone from the division that builds F16 Jet engines will e-mail a form letter telling you that they can't e-mail you anything because of ITAR and export to non friendly countries.

morpho · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

hahahahahaha....

so true.

ggunn · September 2011

Re: Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

morpho wrote: »

I have tried calling the customer service lines..I climbed into their telephone tree and went from branch to branch pushing buttons to try and get where I wanted to go..and in the end I have yet to get an actual person.

Not to hijack, but that drives me bonkers. During one such experience I was reduced to pushing buttons pretty much at random, and after many many minutes of doing that, I *finally* reached someone. I took a couple of deep breaths, and then said, "I have a problem that I hope you can help me with, but first I want to ask you this: How many of the folks that manage to finally reach you are so irritated at your company for their phone system that they immediately try to bite your head off?" She laughed and said, "Pretty much all of them."

Gas oven without an electric glow bar?

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