The best sound in the world!

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SirSparks
SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
I added 4 x 85W more panels to my RV roof today, I am now 100% full in roof space with a total of 12 x 85 watts. For the first time ever my Outback MX80 cooling fan is frequently cyclking ON. I had never heard it before, loud but GREAT. Makes me think I am producing serious power now. I also unplugged shore power/generator but still have cool AC. Outside 100.5F inside 86F

GREAT.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #2
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    Do you have a hydrometer and/or Battery Monitor to watch your bank's state of charge? You do not want to flatten your battery bank or "deficit charge" over time.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    1020 Watts of panel could produce 54 Amps of peak charge current, more or less. That's about right for your 585 Amp hours of battery.

    I'm not sure I'd count on a thermally-controlled cooling fan as an indicator of power produced. :p
    Nice thing about the FM80: there's a display built-in that reads kWatt hours - once you learn how to push the buttons and get to the right screen. You can have hours of fun looking at all the data that rolls up on it! Amps and Volts in, Amps and Volts out, Absorb time left, minutes in Float, kW hours produced ... So much info, so little time to read it all. :p
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #4
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    Re: The best sound in the world!
    BB. wrote: »
    Do you have a hydrometer and/or Battery Monitor to watch your bank's state of charge? You do not want to flatten your battery bank or "deficit charge" over time.

    -Bill

    Well of course I have the Outback which tells me evrything; 2pm now and 2.1Kw produced max amps 50.3A, present voltage 12.4V (my AC ius very small) present production 650 watts. I also have this really cute lowl voltage alarm modified for me in the UK (cost $20) 2 level alarm programmable but I have it set to 12.3V and 12.0V

    Adding the 4 extra panels todaqy also mad me realize (too large a current increase) that one 2 panel string is not working! Not sure what it is yet as I only have a clamp on ammeter and need a series ammter to find out what the problem is,. Maybe just one of my SOLDERED connections LOL.
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #5
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    PS. Marc; I should get my ex to learn how to push those buttons; SHE'S AN EXPERT.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #6
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    At 12.4 volts on the battery--It should still be sunny there in Florida at the time of your post--You are pulling power from the battery bank and not charging.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #7
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    Re: The best sound in the world!
    BB. wrote: »
    At 12.4 volts on the battery--It should still be sunny there in Florida at the time of your post--You are pulling power from the battery bank and not charging.

    -Bill

    That is a bit over-simplified Bill; Battery volttage decreses wth load so Sunny or not does not effect the outcome; 12.4V volts is almost fully charged and higher than it was aT 7AM this morning (12.3V 75%)

    BTW AC is off on T/stat now and V is 13.3V
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    Some clarification:

    Bubbling during Absorb is perfectly normal. Too much bubbling (and it's hard to tell) indicates too high a charge Voltage and will lead to excessive water loss and higher internal battery temps which shorten battery life. RTS are a good idea. One will prevent the controller from applying too much Voltage when the batteries get hot and too little when they are cold.

    Normally you should see Absorb Voltage of 14.4 or more on FLA's. Float ought to be maintained at 12.8 or more (up to 13.8v). Battery manufacturer should provide specific Voltage set points for your batteries. Battery Voltage should not decrease with load during Absorb or Float; the Voltage set points should be maintained. If they aren't, then there's not enough panel to support both the charging function and the loads being drawn. For a 12 Volt system 12.7 Volts resting is fully charged.

    Just in case you haven't been through the deep cycle battery FAQ's: http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #9
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    If the battery is 12.4 volts when charging with significant current... That is a well discharged battery bank.

    When the battery bank is around 80-90% state of charge and sufficient charging current, you should be seeing ~13.8-14.7 volts or so when charging (bulk/absorb phase). When the battery is fully charged, the controller will drop back to around 13.2 to 13.7 volts or so (float stage).

    Your battery, at ~77F and less than 12.7-12.8 volts (and no load) is not being charged.

    You do have an estimate of how much current is flowing into the battery bank?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #10
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    Re: The best sound in the world!
    BB. wrote: »
    If the battery is 12.4 volts when charging with significant current... That is a well discharged battery bank.

    When the battery bank is around 80-90% state of charge and sufficient charging current, you should be seeing ~13.8-14.7 volts or so when charging (bulk/absorb phase). When the battery is fully charged, the controller will drop back to around 13.2 to 13.7 volts or so (float stage).

    Your battery, at ~77F and less than 12.7-12.8 volts (and no load) is not being charged.

    You do have an estimate of how much current is flowing into the battery bank?

    -Bill

    YES; average 660 watts production, average 450 watts on AC. use My batteries are not diecharged in fact they are at about 75%. Voltages mean very little unless the bank has been at rest for 3 hours, besides that is why I HAVE a battery bank in the first place. I just need to make sure they don't deplete below 50% which they have not. V reading is now 12.9 with AC on again.

    These voltages have nothing to do with charging or not; They are a NET value and have nothing to much say as to if cuurent is entering or leaving the bank when load conditions exist.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    sirsparks,
    if you suspect a bad string then can you connect them 1 string at a time and see the output increase as one that doesn't produce an increase may have a problem associated with it. it still could show an increase, but if too small in comparison to the others there still could be a problem. were all the pvs fully illuminated at the time as a few being shaded, even a little, will seem like a string is bad?
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #12
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    Re: The best sound in the world!
    niel wrote: »
    sirsparks,
    if you suspect a bad string then can you connect them 1 string at a time and see the output increase as one that doesn't produce an increase may have a problem associated with it. it still could show an increase, but if too small in comparison to the others there still could be a problem. were all the pvs fully illuminated at the time as a few being shaded, even a little, will seem like a string is bad?

    All PV.s equally illuminated, I have 6 pairs of series 12V panels ( 6 x 24 volts for 12 panels) each 6 sets on a home run. AQt the connection block I have two sets to each 15 amp fuse. One fuse is only showing 50% amps on the Outback therefore without a doubt 1 pair of panels is not producing. Of course I suspect this nis just one of the two series panels thT MAKE THE 24v.

    All voltages read OK on the roof but tomorrow I must purchase an El-Cheapo ammeter to check output from each of the 4 suspect panels..
    I could split the two strings but that still leaves one of TWO panels at fault so I will just wait for the meter as my AC clamp-on is useless in this case.


    Thanks Pete
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #13
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    Well I isolated the problem to a bad MC4 connector (Not the soldered joint on it LOL) Anyway tracing the fault between 12 panels proved toi be a royal pain because without an inline ammeter I was relying on indicated amps on the charge controller and with disconnecting array fuses I set at a time.

    What I* as a PV novice did not realize was that the controller was in Absorb mode and every time I connected all arrays current limiting started. I drove me crazy for a while until I realized and switched on some loads.

    Anyway at 9 am I was getting 440 watts output from the PV's which is about double what I had seen at this time in the past. If the sky stays clear I hope to see an accumilated 4Kw today which will make me VERY happy.

    Thanks for all the suggestions.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    if that bad mc4 connector is on the pv you must make a warranty claim as cutting it off will void your warranty altogether.
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #15
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    That's a very good point but fortunately it was not on the PV side so no hassle in sending it back, I bought them on Ebay they do have TUV stamped on them but no Country of origin.
    End of day showed 4.7KWhr and 790 watts peak (DC at controller). Better than I had even dreamed.

    THere is one thing unclear to me; In order to squeeze the maximum (keep amps at max) I presume it is OK to sometimes interrupt Float (by switching all load to PV''s) but NOT interrupt Absorb ? (Even though Bulk usually produces more)' In other words I mean that I presume Absorb is an important part of keeping the battery healthy but Float somewhat less so ?
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: The best sound in the world!

    a float charge does help to keep a battery healthy, but it is less critical than the absorb stage because when a battery hits float the battery is technically fully charged. the absorb charge is part of the charging of the battery for its last 10% or so of capacity. without a float charge the battery will slowly degrade in its charge due to self discharge so it keeps it at a full charge status.
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  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #17
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    Re: The best sound in the world!
    niel wrote: »
    a float charge does help to keep a battery healthy, but it is less critical than the absorb stage because when a battery hits float the battery is technically fully charged. the absorb charge is part of the charging of the battery for its last 10% or so of capacity. without a float charge the battery will slowly degrade in its charge due to self discharge so it keeps it at a full charge status.

    Thanks, I'll make sure to give it float sometimes. I had to go to Home Depot this mornibg and when I ghot back it was already on Float; Now I don't feel cheated ! LOL.
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