Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

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Seven
Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
I think that this will be my inverter and I would like to know if anyone has any input on its function. Any issues/problems with it. Known lifespan? Ease of use? It seems that it can be used in an off-grid setup as well as the grid-tie it was designed for. I guess any hybrid/interactive can by their nature. I had planned on using a 24v system, but it seems that going ahead and starting with 48v will be better long term, as my panels, and system, grow. I will be using 380ah 6v Interstate L16s.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,443 admin
    #2
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    The only limitation that I know of--Is there are some Outback GT capable inverters that have a very tight range on input frequency (because of GT function?) and will not sync up for recharging battery bank when using a backup AC genset (may work OK with inverter generator type units).

    Check the manuals/Outback forum for details.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    All the Outback FX series inverters function essentially the same, with minor differences such as system Voltage (second pair of numbers in the model), whether or not they're vented (the 'V' in the model), and whether or not they're grid-tie capable (the 'G' in the model).

    Is this for grid tie or off grid? Frankly, OB is not the best choice for grid-tie in my opinion. It would be a battery-based hybrid system like the Xantrex XW series, only less Watts and only 120 VAC output.

    For off-grid, skip the 'G' prefix models. Outback inverters are probably the most dependable of any make. They can be confusing to program (you need a MATE interface to do so - inadvisable to run without it), but can be highly adaptable and of course integrate with OB charge controllers. You can stack the inverters for more power or higher Voltage or use an autotransformer if you need 240 VAC.

    Not to be nasty, but it does sound from your post as though your choosing equipment randomly. The best way to size an off-grid system is to determine your load requirements first. Base the inverter selection and battery bank size on that, and the array/charge controller on the battery bank. Your battery bank selection would be up to 9 kW hours of power, which is very large for off-grid. And you'd need about a 3 kW array to recharge it.
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  • hotdawg23
    hotdawg23 Solar Expert Posts: 32 ✭
    #4
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648
    Seven wrote: »
    I think that this will be my inverter and I would like to know if anyone has any input on its function. Any issues/problems with it. Known lifespan? Ease of use? It seems that it can be used in an off-grid setup as well as the grid-tie it was designed for. I guess any hybrid/interactive can by their nature. I had planned on using a 24v system, but it seems that going ahead and starting with 48v will be better long term, as my panels, and system, grow. I will be using 380ah 6v Interstate L16s.

    Seven
    Just wondering if those batteries are the ones used in golf carts? I been looking at them and it appears they are the best choice.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648
    hotdawg23 wrote: »
    Seven
    Just wondering if those batteries are the ones used in golf carts? I been looking at them and it appears they are the best choice.

    "Golf cart" batteries are T105's and typically have an Amp hour rating around 220-225. L16's are tall case 6 Volts with an Amp hour rating ranging from 320 to 395 depending on make and model. The L16's need optimum charging because they tend to suffer more from electrolyte stratification (lack of good mixing). The golf cart batteries are usually a good choice for starting out because they offer quite a bargain in terms of $ per Amp hour as they are one of the most readily available sizes - since they're used in golf carts. :D
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648
    hotdawg23 wrote: »
    Seven
    Just wondering if those batteries are the ones used in golf carts? I been looking at them and it appears they are the best choice.

    No, but I do know the ones you are talking about. They are a recent addition to the Interstate line and have a green top, I believe. They are supposed to be the cat's meow as far as the GC style batteries go.

    I decided on the ones I went with after I determined I needed to run a 48v bank. I would have gone with the ones you are talking about otherwise. Plus, I got a really good price on them. These are a couple of feet tall and weigh right at 108lbs each.
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648
    BB. wrote: »
    The only limitation that I know of--Is there are some Outback GT capable inverters that have a very tight range on input frequency (because of GT function?) and will not sync up for recharging battery bank when using a backup AC genset (may work OK with inverter generator type units).

    Check the manuals/Outback forum for details.

    -Bill
    Bill,
    I had read the entire manual from cover to cover and somehow I missed on the bottom of the welcome page, in the notes section, that it is not designed to be used with a generator. Oh my gosh. Thank you.
    I will check out the outback forums and see if there is a workaround.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,443 admin
    #8
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    Yea, it is tough sometimes to ferret the real warnings from the lawyer boiler plate.

    The only work-a-round I am aware of would be to a separate AC/DC battery charger of some sort directly connected to the battery bank (at least as far as genset charging is concerned).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    It looks like you can hook an inverter generator to it, but I have more questions that need to be answered before I can make the call. It will take me a few days to figure it out. I have gotten used to aggravation like this. Such is a noobs life.
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  • GreenerPower
    GreenerPower Solar Expert Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    Have a GVFX3648 for 5 years now, still going strong. Not really easy to navigate through the "menu tree" on the Mate but eventually you would remember the path to some frequent functions you do. The GX can only be used "off-line" with inverter type generator as the Honda EUs but make sure "sell" is disabled when PVs are pushing the battery voltage up. The "draw backs" I see are:
    * Poor power factor charger (for both GX and FX), so it would load generator as "full" at half the generator's capable wattage. Not sure what's the effect on the inverter type generator.
    * Automatically charge battery when connecting back to grid (even after a brief power outage).
    * One set of AC inputs and have to program them for grid input or gen input (can control to limit current drawn and charging current with gen input to keep gennie from overloading).

    With your L16s batteries, you would need to occasionally "exercise" the battery to keep them from sulfating due to being float all the time.
    GP
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    Thanks for both of your replies. It almost seems that I would be better off with two seperate components in order to have my hybrid system as efficient as possible. One to keep the batteries charged and a seperate grid tie inverter. Could that be done without having two seperate arrays?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648
    Seven wrote: »
    Thanks for both of your replies. It almost seems that I would be better off with two seperate components in order to have my hybrid system as efficient as possible. One to keep the batteries charged and a seperate grid tie inverter. Could that be done without having two seperate arrays?

    It could be done with a Xantrex XW system, which is the better choice for grid-tie/battery back-up hybrid.

    You can't use one array to power both a battery charging controller and a grid-tie inverter. For one thing, an array should only be connected to one device (controller or inverter) not two. For another, the array Voltage for a standard battery system is lower than that for a typical grid-tie central inverter (48 Volts nominal max vs. 480 Volts nominal for most GT inverters).

    If you want GT and battery back-up, pick the Xantrex XW. As I mentioned before, Outback is not really a great choice for grid-tie.
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    Thanks! I have to do more rethinking now.
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  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    I was so close to going Xantrex for the reasons discussed here. I wanted to have an "off-grid" capable system in case of outages (including being able to use a generator) but was quite tempted by the possibility of going grid-tie in the future. The XW would have let me do that.

    IIRC the XW would even do "load-sharing" - meaning it could use partial grid power and partial solar power to run loads on its downstream subpanel. That would be useful in maximizing use of solar power without requiring draw-down of the batteries during lower-power times like overcast or early/late day. (But again I may be remembering wrong on this point, it's been a few years since I was looking!)

    In the end I went with Outback because I'm a tinkerer who likes to automate things and Outback provided me with the full communications protocol specs for their system and Xantrex did not. It was fun and easy to connect the Outback to my computer network and monitor/control it using my own software, whereas at least at the time I would have been stuck using Xantrex's Windows software - and I don't do Windows.

    But that's probably a niche preference that most people wouldn't care about! :)
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    Thanks for the reply.


    Does anyone know where I can DL an owners manual for the XW? Xantrex doesn't even have that product listed on their site. I checked the discontinued stuff, just in case. I cant find any info for it other that what NAWS has and that is just a brochure.



    ***edit***
    found one at oksolar

    ***edit again****
    At first glance it seems the xw cannot use a 120v genny. It must be a 240
    from page 23 "The generator should be a 120/240V, 2-wire or 3-wire generator with Auto Start capability"
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,443 admin
    #16
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    The Xantrex RE productions are now supported directly at the Schneider website:

    http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/products-services/renewable-energies/products-offer/range-presentation.page?c_filepath=/templatedata/Offer_Presentation/3_Range_Datasheet/data/en/shared/renewable_energies/xantrex_xw.xml&f=F13%3ARenewable%20Energies~!NNM1:Solar+Backup+and+Off-Grid+Systems~!NNM2:Backup+and+Off-Grid+Systems~!NNM3:Xantrex+XW#

    (Note: deep linking at Schneider-Electric.com is more or less prohibited by their website design--If the above link does not get you there, you will have to go through the "Country", then Renewable Energy product tab, and then drill down to the XW stuff).

    I do recall a Schneider/Xantrex document that talks about a couple of simple output transformer jumper changes that change from 6kW 120/240 VAC split phase (AC IN/AC OUT) to 6kW 120 VAC single phase, plus, as I recall, requires a firmware change too.

    However, I have not been able to find that information in the last couple of months on the Schneider website--You probably will have to call tech support directly.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • GreenerPower
    GreenerPower Solar Expert Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    Power of internet and googling 8)

    Some old Xantrex XW user and installation manuals here (ignore "X" out the pop-up) then you can download the PDF - http://lawnandgarden.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/xantrex_technology/xw6048-120_240-60_1.html

    Jumper changes for 120 only or 240 split-phase here - www.altestore.com/mmsolar/others/Addendum_6048.pdf
    GP
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  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Does anyone have personal experience with the Outback Power GVFX3648

    I have said it before, but I will say it again, You guys rock!

    Thank you for the links and for all the help.
    The jumper changes for 120v in the link are for the 6048. I will do some checking to see if the same thing applies to the 4548
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