Clean energy business crash?

Cariboocoot
Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
in Solar Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner #1
An article from Forbes sent to me by a friend. All speculative as usual. :roll:
http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/2011/07/07/the-coming-clean-tech-crash/
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    this might sound harsh of me, but think about what i'm about to say. yes, we've had our ups and downs and it may very well be partly due to how governments handle incentives, but i totally disagree to extend monies further into "risky areas" for as it is we have the likes of swwp and evergreen running away with the $. frankly they should just give it totally back to us, the people, and let us buy the stuff. most of the $ isn't going where it is supposed to or doing the most good imo so why not just give it to us? i sit in wonder right now of the many companies that produce products for us, that naws and many other renewable stores carry, if the government has helped to get controllers like those from midnite or morningstar (total u s companies) and some other products to market or is the $ just for pv companies with international ties that take that $ and run? or even so called research that has very little to do with making or improving products for the industry in many cases. when one thinks about the monies poured into these areas i believe that everybody could've had a small solar setup already paid for by now with this many years of this going on.

    take more risks, as the article says, to me is throwing away money to more unscrupulous thieves and not enough or no monies go where it does the most good.
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  • James
    James Solar Expert Posts: 250 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    Hello,
    I absolutely agree. It's been shown time and time again...get the incentives directly into the hands of the consumer and he will buy it. Nothing I know of has a faster, more direct result.

    The movement of products to the consumer always seems to drive a market forward. Companies will invest in product development if consumers are buying.

    Net results would benefit not only the RE market, but would also push along many other segment of our economy.

    Think of how many installations would be up and running if just a portion of the subsidies and grants to big oil and renewable energy start ups monies were directed to consumer incentives.
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  • The Only Sarge
    The Only Sarge Solar Expert Posts: 164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Clean energy business crash?
    niel wrote: »
    this might sound harsh of me, but think about what i'm about to say. yes, we've had our ups and downs and it may very well be partly due to how governments handle incentives, but i totally disagree to extend monies further into "risky areas" for as it is we have the likes of swwp and evergreen running away with the $. frankly they should just give it totally back to us, the people, and let us buy the stuff. most of the $ isn't going where it is supposed to or doing the most good imo so why not just give it to us? i sit in wonder right now of the many companies that produce products for us, that naws and many other renewable stores carry, if the government has helped to get controllers like those from midnite or morningstar (total u s companies) and some other products to market or is the $ just for pv companies with international ties that take that $ and run? or even so called research that has very little to do with making or improving products for the industry in many cases. when one thinks about the monies poured into these areas i believe that everybody could've had a small solar setup already paid for by now with this many years of this going on.

    take more risks, as the article says, to me is throwing away money to more unscrupulous thieves and not enough or no monies go where it does the most good.

    I think Government should stay totally out of private enterprise completely. Regulate for the general safety of the citizenship (to a point)....other than that let the market float on it's own. Government cannot blow it's own nose.
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  • dagr51
    dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    Well, well said, Sarge!
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  • garlic
    garlic Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #6
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    You are right on Neil.That two feet planted firmly in reality is what gives
    this forum it's great reputation for credibility,and accuracy.
    As opposed to many mostly ideologically driven "info centers" that seem
    more akin to the pot smoke induced,pie in the sky ways of a mid 70's
    "back to the land" magazine.

    Government,through a tyrannical level of taxation and regulation hurts
    the RE field by creating a drag on businesses,and the general public.

    And who would believe for a minute that "incentives" aren't purely politically
    targeted.

    This section and the product review section of this forum is a demonstration of
    how the private sector can and will "regulate" the RE industry.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
    #7
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    Watch the pure politics here (and I do love a good political discussion)--We try to be a technical forum and have chosen to avoid general political discussions (and a open discussion sub-forum).

    Hard to moderate and somebody will eventually get ticked of and leave.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    the politics involved with solar and other re sources is allowed for general conversation, but not to the extent of name calling or singling political parties and such. we can make general statements such as they should or shouldn't be pouring monies into solar businesses or research. it is hard to keep a focus sometimes for members and they do have to watch themselves that they do not go off into areas not of concern to this forum. what has been talked of so far is acceptable, but bill's caution is warranted as this statement,
    "Government,through a tyrannical level of taxation and regulation hurts the RE field by creating a drag on businesses,and the general public."
    is borderline.
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  • garlic
    garlic Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #9
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    I understand,and my intention wasn't to make a political point in as much
    as it was to point out how much this forum is dedicated to reality in a
    technical aspect that is truly refreshing these days.

    A compliment so to speak in an unembarrassing roundabout sort of way.

    Neil,Labeling the truth back up by facts,and not emotion "borderline"
    is the problem at hand as I see it~however~ respectfully sir,it is your call,
    so I will leave it at that.

    Being a guy who lives off the land for the most part and makes his living
    in the woods,I tend to be somewhat more direct and less socially nuanced
    than most in today's culture(I don't get to town much) so if I have stepped on any ones toes I apologize.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
    #10
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    No apologies needed... I would point you to a few of my deleted overtly political posts (before I became a moderator)--but I cannot--they have been deleted. :blush:;)

    People on all sides of political (and other) discussions have passionately held views.

    Given that this forum is paid for and a service provided by a commercial corporation (Northern Arizona Wind & Sun)--We are not here to alienate anyone...

    And, as many of you have commented--This forum is where we attempt to educate and help people make their own informed decisions. To the point where we have had a couple new members ask if this is a solar forum or not--When we tell somebody to get a propane bottle for a fridge for a weekend cabin, and a generator to run a few lights/backup when the power goes out rather than install a $xxxx Solar PV/Wind System--it does confound a few folks.

    Moderation here has been pretty easy--Mostly it is stopping the WoW Gold scams (selling "gold" "stolen" from Worlds of Warcraft online game) and people from 1/2 around that are really happy with their auto-glass replacement company in Los Angeles.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • garlic
    garlic Solar Expert Posts: 43 ✭
    #11
    Re: Clean energy business crash?
    When we tell somebody to get a propane bottle for a fridge for a weekend cabin, and a generator to run a few lights/backup when the power goes out rather than install a $xxxx Solar PV/Wind System--it does confound a few folks.

    This is exactly what I mean,good truthful,accurate info,and not to get
    off on a tangent,but one of the "tools" I have gained from reading here is
    the knowledge of charge rates and panel vs. battery sizing.I look at systems I run into in
    person and ones sold by companies on line and I am amazed at how many folks
    have systems that don't have enough panel.They know they have problems with their batteries,but don't know why,and they have invested a considerable sum as well.

    Because of you good folks,my small off grid system I put together serves my family and I very well,as it has to.No other way about it.
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  • The Only Sarge
    The Only Sarge Solar Expert Posts: 164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    My personal experience is simple. I looked for a solar forum to get some basic/new guy answers. I got arrogant/mod nazi smart a$$ answers. Or I got "buy my stuff" answers.

    Then I found this place.

    I had 7 kabillion amp hours of 12v batteries and a 30 watt panel.

    Coot had a fit.;) BB told me to get a fuse.

    Now I have 30 amp hours of battery and 7 kabillion watts of PV with a fuse.

    Life is good.:-)
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Clean energy business crash?

    garlic,
    do not worry too much as the post is allowed to stand as it is. if you are confused by my statement of it being borderline it is because of the references to general tyranny from the government, but the saving grace imo is, that you later pointed to, as it pertains to re. it still infers much and could start political troubles on a renewable forum so, yes it is borderline and we issue cautions once in awhile.

    i know you have no ill intentions with your statement and bill was cautioning not to go too far and i agreed with him, but i am trying to clarify that caution so you understand better.

    thank you btw for the complements given by you, and others, on our having good perspectives,8) but i guess you didn't expect another aspect of that perspective.:roll: we try.:D
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