Apollo T80

oglethorp
oglethorp Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Looking for any insight and /or solutions.
My T80 is a bit over kill for such a small system but I hope to add many more panels as time and money permit.I have,, 48v, system,, 4/165w solar world,, Apollo T80 charge controller, MagnaSine 4448 Inverter mounted on a Midnite panel, 2 strings of 8/ 200ah golf cart batts. On the best day I might get 13amps at 55v
With no loads (that I can find) , the Inverter off , I m loosing approx 10% of available battery current according to their screen readout.
I ve tried talking with them and well they ll get back with me as their trouble shooter is away
Their guess so far is a possible draw from the shunt that the T80 is connected to.
I d appreciate any help working thru this, Loosing 10% of a small or any system is a problem I need to correct.
Regards,
Phil
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Apollo T80

    I think this is why NAWS stopped carrying Apollo products: too many customer complaints.

    Some other observations:
    Your array is way undersized for 400 Amp hours @ 48 Volts. You might make a charge rate of 3% with your peak 13 Amps.
    Don't know how your panels are configured or what their specs are, but 55 Volts is too low for charging a 48 Volt bank.

    It sounds like you need to lose half your batteries or at least double your array or run the generator a lot. You also seem to need a new charge controller. Possibly the array needs to be reconfigured. From 660 Watts I'd expect about 8 Amps on average. That's 2% of 400 Amp hours - way below the 5% recommended minimum. Even on 200 Amp hour it's really too small. If you've been chronically undercharging your batteries or recharging them over days they are probably already sulphated and losing capacity.

    Sorry it's nothing but bad news. :blush:
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #3
    Re: Apollo T80

    Hmmm... Normally, the way we "estimate" reasonable current output levels from a MPPT controller:
    • 4x165 watts * 1/55 volt battery charging = 12 amps expected maximum current
    • 4x165 watts * 1/55 volts * 1/0.77 system derating = 9.24 typical derated current
    13 amps of output current is actually more than I would expect unless your system is in a subfreezing climate and you have snow on the ground reflecting sun light into the panels.

    I believe the T-80 also has a shunt and battery monitor integrated with the unit too--Battery Monitors are usually pretty accurate. Plain Charge controllers many times read round 5-10% high for current output.

    So--I am not sure where you are seeing 10% loss of output current (if I understand your question correctly)...

    Or, is your question that you have 1 amp or so draw through the battery monitor shunt at night when there is no other loads?

    On the other hand, your battery voltage of 55 volts charging seems a tad on the "low side"... I would have expected around 58 to 59 volts (if this is a flooded cell battery bank) as the battery charges and ~55 volts as the battery is fully charged and the charge controller falls back to float levels.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • oglethorp
    oglethorp Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Apollo T80

    Example: right now -overcast hazy day
    In from panels 63.8v 4.7amps
    Out to batts 53.8v 5.5amps
    Every load off
    Battery current 4.2amps

    Bulk rate of charge

    Also I have one string of old batts with a 1, 2, or both switch
    They read 100% easily (according to Apolo )l on a avg day

    Panels rated 35v
    4.7amps
    2 in series x2
    Very lacking on knowledge just winging it.
    Thanks
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  • oglethorp
    oglethorp Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭✭
    #5
    Re: Apollo T80

    Thread moved???
    not sure how to follow
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Apollo T80
    oglethorp wrote: »
    Example: right now -overcast hazy day
    In from panels 63.8v 4.7amps
    Out to batts 53.8v 5.5amps
    Every load off
    Battery current 4.2amps

    Bulk rate of charge

    Also I have one string of old batts with a 1, 2, or both switch
    They read 100% easily (according to Apolo )l on a avg day

    Panels rated 35v
    4.7amps
    2 in series x2
    Very lacking on knowledge just winging it.
    Thanks

    10 Volts less coming out of the Apollo than going in with an increase of about 1 Amp. That doesn't sound good, especially as it shouldn't let the Voltage sink so much. But if the batteries are shot the Voltage may not come up. As I said before, this is really insufficient panel for that much battery.

    A couple of things to try: 1). bypass the controller entirely. See what sort of Voltage/current the panels will put out directly to the batteries. This requires some skill and some decent test equipment like a clamp-on DC meter for measuring current. 2). check the resting Voltage of the batteries & their specific gravity in each cell. Recharge from another source (generator/utility & charger). Recheck resting Voltage and SG. You need to see if these batteries are still good or if they've been ruined from chronic undercharging.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Apollo T80
    oglethorp wrote: »
    Thread moved???
    not sure how to follow

    Not sure why it was moved. I didn't do it. :cool: Bill? :confused:
    It will just hum along as before; a redirect in the original section and the e-mail notifications will link back here.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #8
    Re: Apollo T80

    I did not move the thread (no history regarding who moves threads here)--but I would probably put it in the Off-Grid thread... This is not really a product review but more technical questions.

    Anyway--A battery Monitor only measures the current into and out of the battery over time (Amp*Hours in and AH out). The 100% and such is just based on end charge conditions (over XX volts for YY minutes to reset to 100%). And it is based on what you program into the Battery Monitor for bank AH capacity...

    If your batteries are sulfated (for example), they will have less than rated AH capacity.

    Anyway--the amount of charging current and Vmp sounds reasonable for conditions.

    Sort of stand back, and look at the Batteries as the "heart" of your system. The loads will empty the batteries and the charge controller will recharge.

    If your loads (amp*hours) are higher than your charger's ability to pump amp*hours (plus about 10-20% more), then you are not fully recharging your battery bank...

    Have you read these Battery FAQ's yet?

    Deep Cycle Battery FAQ
    www.batteryfaq.org

    Do not try and mix everything together (loads, charging current, controller, battery bank)... Just look at each thing from the battery's point of view. Do not worry how the Charge Controller interacts with the Loads... The Battery Monitor (if that is what you are looking at) does not control the Charge Controller--it just logs the current*time.

    I will move this thread to the Off Grid forum--hopefully, you will find it there/here.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Apollo T80

    i moved it assuming it was opinions on the apollo 80. my mistake. carry on.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #10
    Re: Apollo T80

    No logs... Deny, deny, deny.... ;)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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