Starting solar set up

Re: Starting solar set up

Also, before you purchase your first piece of hardware, check with your utility about the options for Solar PV GT power.

In California (and many other regions), commercial vendors pay a "reservation charge" and a kWH/Hour charge.

For some of the (few) commercial accounts I have seen, the reservation charge (based on your top 15 minutes of peak kW or kVA for the last year). And was worth about 1/2 the total electric bill (kWH per month billing was the other half).

What I have seen happen (in a couple cases I read about) was that solar GT power you only get ~6 hours a day of power to make up for your 24 hour per day power usage... The your reservation charge remained the same (because the peak did not drop much or at all) or possibly even went up because the reservation charge also measured peak solar GT generation--And you were charged the same if it was 100kW peak of power you used or 100kW peak of power you generated.

For large commercial/school/etc. installations, the billing details made or broke the system (at one San Diego school system, the overall cost of power went up with solar GT instead of down--even when the various incentives were taken into account).

Obviously, with large GT solar systems (>10kW to >100kW), your utility is probably going to put an engineer on the project to ensure they can manage your power generation.

Lastly, there have been reports (both US and Canada) of GT systems that are ready to connect, but the utility is refusing to allow the actual connection even after everything else as approved/pre-approved).

-Bill

Re: Starting solar set up

DDuffeeInc wrote: »

I thought Kyocera was my choice brand but now I am also looking at Solarworld since they are multi cell.

What is mult-cell?

I think Solarworld is saying that the panels are poly-crystalline cells. So are most (all?) Kyocera.

The next "step up" is mono-crystalline... The two advantages are:

1. No "fractured blue crystalline" look. Mono-crystalline cells are a uniform near black color (aesthetics).
2. Mono-crystalline cells are slightly more efficient, so the same physical size array will output a bit more energy. If you are not constrained by space--Look at the $$$/Watt pricing for panels. It may not be worth paying extra for a solar array if color or space limitations are not an issue.

We really do not have many outages but I am tossing the thoughts of a battery back-up system just to see how they work. We are already set up for a generator back-up now. I am goin to take readings on the stand-by panel and see what comes out. When we built the buildin I made sure the large loads were not on this panel. We do have have about a dozen printers and PCs along with about 30 energy efficient lights. If we went into stand-by I could turn off more than half the lights as our building front is mostly glass. I really think 8 hours of battery stand by would be plenty for us to never go down.

Adding a battery bank really does add cost to the overall system... A hybrid system will end up costing you around 2-3x more $/kWH over grid tie because of the extra hardware costs, battery bank and replacement batteries ever X years, and some extra conversion losses).

I too would have really liked a Hybrid system for my home--but I could never justify the costs for a couple hour outage every few years.

Regarding battery bank sizing--Because of the way charge controllers/hybrid inverters work, you typically need a fairly large battery bank... for a 9kW array, you should probably have an absolute minimum of 900 AH battery bank @ 48 volts to handle both the 9kW array (batteries help stabilize the 48 volts system voltage) and manage the surge required to supply typical maximum of 18kW surge current.

You do also have the choice of AGM (sealed) or flooded cell batteries. AGM's are very nice batteries but tend to be around 2x as expensive as flooded cell. I think good quality Flooded Cell batteries will last longer.

I do have another question though. Since we are on a Demand Charge rate of $12.00 pr Kwh if I install say a 9,000 Kw system would this power be ahead of Xcel's line while it is in place? We usually have about 22 Kw demand which is $244.00 per month on the bill every month so far. I do realize if we hit the demand early in the morning before the sun comes up then the system will not take the demand.

I am not sure I understand the question... But, from what little I understand, your monthly billing will simply be based on the maximum of 22kW load peak demand or 9kW peak generation capacity--Which ever is higher.

If you can figure out why you have a 22kW peak load and cut it by 1/2 (say multiple A/C systems all starting at 6AM--stagger start times so that they start over a 1-2 hour time period, start only 1/2 for slower cool down, etc.) you will have reduced a big chunk of your billing.

On a side note we are installing a Skystream 600 also withing the next couple of months with this PV system. The wind here, is excellent. Our average wind speed on our site is 13.4 mph. That is from the 3Tier page. The wind yesterday blew 30 to 35 mph. As I type this it is 6:00 am and we are at 15 mph right now going for another 30 mph day. The wind blows better than 8 months a year like this. The only day the wind is not blowing? It is blazing hot and the sun beats down on us for 12 hours. This should be a good start for renewables.

Will you be placing this on a 60 foot minimum tower?

I am not a fan of small wind (so take what I say with a grain of salt). Wind turbines tend to be unreliable and the few that have kWH meters attached to the turbine tend not to generate the kWH per month/year suggested by the manufacturer.

Wind turbines themselves (the nacelle) are not usually that expensive and look pretty reasonable (based on advertized ratings). However, the tower/pole + base and electrical wiring can easily make the total installed costs 2x or more of the price of the turbine.

Add that most people need to rent a crane or hydraulic mule to service the turbine--the maintenance costs tend to be high too.

I would suggest finding a local install with, at least, 1 year of logged energy production before purchasing any wind turbine.

We have been in the building now for 6 months so I do not have 12 months of bills yet. I do not know if we are allowed to say we are on a Facebook site on here. If we are allowed then do a search for Independent Electric in Levelland, Texas and you will be able to see the construction of the building. If I am not then Mods please can you edit this? Then maybe people could PM me and I could let the interested people know.

Sure, a simply link to your Facebook site is OK. For posters "in the business", we do allow a simple signature back to their website/other link that identifies their business.

We just do not allow advertising trolling for customers. This site is funded and software supported by NAWS (Northern Arizona Wind & Sun)--A retailer/wholesaler out of Flagstaff Arizona.

All of us here (other than the two moderators) are volunteers and have no business relationship with NAWS (other than, possibly, as a customer).

I will be sure and keep you all in the know on this as I progress. After being in the industry for 30 years this has gotten me just a tad excited about things again.

I agree generating your own power adds a lot of excitement. However, spreadsheet out your costs, kWH generated, and return on investment (or $/kWH based on 20 year system life, maintenance, etc. costs).

Many people really like the mechanical activity of a wind turbine and apparent low cost of the turbine itself.

Solar PV systems just "sit there"--while generating lots of kWH in a predictable manner for years without any maintenance other than washing off the panels once in a long while.

In the end, never forget step 1. Conservation.

Adding some real time monitoring to your utility power/branch circuits can actually help you cut your electric bill by 25% to 50% by mostly replacing equipment with modern Energy Star (high efficiency) equipment and some modification of behavior (equipment usage, turning off unused loads, etc.).

Usually, investing your money in conservation first is a much better investment than building out a larger RE system to generate more energy for a less than efficient building.

-Bill