temp sensor

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petertearai
petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Hi Question on outback fm80. When an equalization is set on the outback will the temp sensor turn off the equalization process if the temp get too high .I dont have a flexmax or mate .The sensor is connected to the fm80.
Thanks
Peter
2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: temp sensor

    Don't know about the fm80, but the MX60 sure doesn't, or at least didn't in the (so far only one) case where mine had some sort of brain fart and stayed in EQ most of the day until I finally noticed what was going on and did a shutdown and restart. By then all my L-16's were HOT :(
    Only happened once (that I know of) so far, in 3 years, but I'm sure it didn't do the batteries any good. :cry:
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: temp sensor

    Thanks for that .The reason for my Question is that I set my system to a 1 hour EQ and it didn't finish the eq that day. The next day it went to continue the eq and when i returned about 2 in the afternoon my batts were warm to the touch.
    Yes I know a silly thing to do , but not planed.
    I was hoping that the outback fm80 would have shut down in batt over temp if the temp had reached 50 deg c. The manual says that an error batt over temp will indicate iif temp reaches 50.
    Whot is not clear is if the over temp works on normal charge and during a eq.
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: temp sensor

    Do I understand correctly, that the FM80 continued on it's own the next day to finish the EQ? That sounds normal. But for sure, if that was the case, and you had preset EQ for one hour, and you came back to find your batteries hot - - - that does NOT sound normal and indeed sounds like what my MX60 did. Not good! :(
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: temp sensor

    Just remember that the eq timer will increment only when it reaches the eq voltage. I've had my MX pump a lot of amps into the batteries (and raise the temp) just trying to reach the eq voltage.

    If the system was trying to finish an eq charge the next day, it might spend many hours with the voltage just below the eq threshold, hence raising the battery temps considerably. Best to stop the eq if it doesn't get finished on one day, and see if it's necessary to do the next day.

    Generator or eq charging I never do automatically...hands on all the way.

    Ralph
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: temp sensor

    Thanks Ralph, appreciate that insight. Guess I was putting too much faith in the abilities of the MX. Now I'm wondering what would have happened the next day and the day after that if I had been away, or hadn't noticed what was going on. Sounds like the potential is there to completely destroy the batteries in short order if we're away, or not paying attention to what's happening, and that's an eye opener :(
    Think I'll deactivate the "auto EQ" and do it manually as I see fit.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: temp sensor

    Sounds like a safer way to go Wayne. If you're regularly checking your battery sg's and electrolyte levels you shouldn't get burned. I check sg at the end of the month (the whole set) and water check in the middle of the month.. This way I'm not trying to do everything during the same trip into the battery box. Also means the electrolyte is not at it's strongest when sg readings are done. The middle of the month shows a median sg level, not the strongest and not diluted.

    My hydrometer is always ready in the box and I take pilot cell readings sometimes daily (if I'm unsure of the soc) but every 2 days at least. 5 second rule...it only takes 5 seconds to check sg on a pilot as a rule, no surprises then.

    My MX60 has firmware version 1.2.4.4, a very early version,. There is no provision for auto eq charge. And I wouldn't use it anyway.

    Ralph
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: temp sensor

    Yes the eq continuing the next day is as expected if the eq hadnt managed to keep the 15.5 volts for the full hour. And on day 2 the clouds would have stoped the 15. 5 volts being reached so stayed in eq mode and volts probably going in batt running between 13 and 15.4.Hence eq still not finished.
    Posibly only way to find out is to disconect the sensor from batts and heat externaly and see what happens.
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: temp sensor

    Further to my post .My main Question is will the outback fm80 stop the eq if temp reaches 50 deg.I was hoping that it would have .I have asked the same Question on the outback forum but seems not an easy one to answer. Thanks again for input and help.
    Regards
    Peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: temp sensor

    I'm quite certain that on the MX series (mine anyway) there is no temp compensation at all, let alone shutdown control. It aims for an eq voltage, hits and holds.

    In the misc menu you can see what your absorb and float setpoints are compensated to, but the eq voltage is just what it is.

    Ralph
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: temp sensor

    Thanks Ralph

    Page 62 of my fm80 manual section 22 has a section called Understanding the Various Operational values.
    It describes messages that may be displayed at the bottom right corner of the status screen.

    BatTooHot "The temperature sensor has detected a battery temperature of over 50deg C. The flexmax 80 will stop charging the battery and wait for the battery to cool below 50deg C."

    Page 40 section 11 says" EQ voltage is not temperature compensated."

    It makes sense so far.
    So I assume temp going past 50 deg while in the normal state of running will trigger the temp shut down.BUT can I assume it will also shut down during an EQ?

    Regards
    Peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: temp sensor

    I think the question is:

    Is an EQ considered a charge?


    IMHO I don't think so as it says "EQ voltage" is not temp compensated...
    as opposed to EQ charge voltage.

    Have you asked on the Outback forum?
     
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: temp sensor

    technically an eq charge is a charge, an overcharge. i can't say if the eq is temp compensated or not for the cc, but if the battery is very cold on fla type batteries this can elevate normal charge parameters to come close to, and maybe exceed for some batteries, the eq voltage if the eq voltage is uncompensated for temp and the other charge parameters are temp compensated.
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: temp sensor

    Hi All
    Yes, I have asked the Question on the Outback forum.But so far no one has a definitive answer. Maybe outback doesn't know?.
    I thought it would be an easy quick answer but possibly not?
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: temp sensor

    I'd go by pg 40 sec 11.

    The thermometer that I found works is a cooking thermometer (candy?). It supports the temp range of charging (at the low end), and it fits in the filler neck of the cells too. A definite gotta have for fla batteries, along with a good hydrometer.

    I've got a good bulb type hydrometer and a refraction type. The refrac would always read higher than the bulb type when used as directed. Instead of as directed I removed some electrolyte and saved it in a baby food jar (at 1.265 sg). Now I use it as my baseline sg and adjust the refrac to it. The directions say to use distilled water to zero the unit, but the sg's were always 15 points higher when read. Now I trust it's readings.

    Ralph
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: temp sensor

    Thanks
    But temperature compensation isn't my question .
    I was hoping to find out if batt over temp shut down works during an EQ. If it does then thermal runaway (past 50deg) during EQ is not possible.

    Regards Peter
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: temp sensor

    Update
    Posted a PM on outbacks site to Steve Higgins .He advises that the fm 80 will indeed shut off at 50 deg.
    Not clear if this will also be true during an EQ, as EQ is not temp compensated.
    Will report back .
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: temp sensor

    Yes, although the EQ is not temperature compensated it will shut down the EQ if batt temp reaches 50 DegC
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
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    Re: temp sensor
    petertearai wrote: »
    Yes, although the EQ is not temperature compensated it will shut down the EQ if batt temp reaches 50 DegC
    Good to know! Thanks for the update.
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