Missouri VAWT

keyturbocars · March 2011

Just sharing this as a curiosity...

http://www.mwands.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=43_54&products_id=386

It is "pretty" looking, but with a modified car alternator, I don't expect it will make much power. The "500W" rating is at who knows what wind speed. Probably gale force winds like the rest of them!

For $2,000 (OUCH!), I would invest in a different turbine (or some solar panels).

Thought some of you might find this interesting.

Edward

MisterB · March 2011

Re: Missouri VAWT

Very pricey for the watts and the technology involved.

I should point you to the ongoing flame war involving MWAS on Youtube. Here is the very biased video MWAS made about Windmax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-VzHxJRA58

Here are some of the critiques of MWAS that are really just doing math on the claims they make:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9DBQkxOLU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzsV5oV8mvM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDK76KfcSSM

And the whole output of fearless thinker who has a lot of good information on wind turbine math and physics:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Fearlessthinker#p/u

The more I looked at MWAS's products, the more I saw how poorly designed they were and there are other companies making almost the same turbines which makes an impression they are all getting the parts from the same source and just assembling them. And the video about the Windmax I found really offensive. He just put it in very turbulent installation--right on the edge of a roof--and made a video of it. Any turbine would not do well in that setup.

raydias · March 2011

Re: Missouri VAWT

I know there are people in this forum that just don't like small wind turbines but the issue I have is that there isn't a good source of data like we have for Solar panels (at least that i could find). For Solar we have PTC and STC ratings that can gives us a good idea of what we would get out of the solar panels with certain conditions. With the math videos etc it still feels like a grudge match. Now to be clear i don't believe wind would work for my area and am looking at solar so I have no vested interest in wind or any experience with it. It just bugs me when claims are made but there is no data to back it up, and I mean repeatable scientific data with detailed setup information so that anyone could reproduce the tests.

I am also a bit confused, in the videos it always talks about the data output not reaching the rated watts of the wind turbine and how bad that is yet solar panels don't produce the rated watts either at least not 100% of the daylight hours.

I do see videos with various small turbines and the people seem happy with them and the power they are getting.

Just a view from the outside

Windsun · March 2011

Re: Missouri VAWT

raydias wrote: »

.... For Solar we have PTC and STC ratings that can gives us a good idea of what we would get out of the solar panels with certain conditions. With the math videos etc it still feels like a grudge match. Now to be clear i don't believe wind would work for my area and am looking at solar so I have no vested interest in wind or any experience with it. It just bugs me when claims are made but there is no data to back it up, and I mean repeatable scientific data with detailed setup information so that anyone could reproduce the tests.

I am also a bit confused, in the videos it always talks about the data output not reaching the rated watts of the wind turbine and how bad that is yet solar panels don't produce the rated watts either at least not 100% of the daylight hours.

I do see videos with various small turbines and the people seem happy with them and the power they are getting.

Just a view from the outside

The problem with wind turbines is that there are no real standards. With solar panels, nearly all are rated to a common standard - xx sunlight gives you yy power out. All of those specifications are easily duplicated by anyone that wants to check for themselves.

However with wind turbines there are no real standards, which is why you so often see inflated power output figures. Who's to say they are wrong, when it is almost impossible to duplicate the conditions?

Even standardized wind tunnel tests would not tell the whole story, since they would not take into account turbulence, shifting winds, etc.

So the bottom line is that small wind is a lot more iffy than solar.

As far as people "being happy", we have talked to a few such happy folk that had no idea how much power their wind turbine was actually producing, and nearly always vastly over estimated what they were getting.

Also see this http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/have-small-wind-manufacturers-exploited-loopholes-in-california-rebates/

russ · March 2011

Re: Missouri VAWT

The small scale wind turbine manufacturers are generally not interested in real third party testing as it exposes their machines to detailed inspection and observation that few, if any, would survive.

Case in point is when Windspire (Mariah) put their machine in the NREL test program. It failed in every way possible.

There is a program people like Paul Gipe and Mick Sagrillo are pushing - 26) Small Wind Certification http://www.smallwindcertification.org/

The testing isn't cheap and when most small manufacturers are going to fail they prefer to avoid it and make silly claims.

The 'happy' owners may well not even be monitoring the actual generation but estimating it. Like the Power Save power factor improvement device. Some people swear by the thing when there is no possible way for it to save them enough to pay for itself in a lifetime.

Russ

GreenPowerManiac · May 2011

Re: Missouri VAWT

These haven't been around long enough for adequate testing. Yes, I agree the VAWT originally tested is in fact a PMA alternator. The real beauty of the VAWT is that it has one moving part and will balance itself under gale force winds. I have one prototype that's working right now and it spins harmonically in variable winds. Very little vibration and no balancing required. It still has some flaws, yet keeps on going. The output depends on the rotor Neodymium magnet strength and the stator coil wire thickness.

On a different note: All the ads out there are full of BS. Expect 10-15% of those quotes average. 50-75 watts on average continuous output. 2 grand is a bit pricey for such little output and you can do it yourself for $500.00 buying, building and installing your own components to make it work. Alternator technology has been around for many decades. Don't trust the D/C electric motors, they run hot and wear out quickly when not ventilated properly.

Missouri VAWT

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