Solar Power From The Moon

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Solar Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner #1
Is this viable? 
http://www.energievair.com/en/online-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_mod1.tpl&product_id=169&category_id=39&vmcchk=1

Was thinking about it but can't find any other info than this site.

And also they have a vertical wind generator. Would be great with my wierd wind in S.E. Oklahoma.

Thanks
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    pure bull sh*t on moon panels.:grr
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Hahahaha The guy who sold me my panels also tried to tell me that "ultraviolet" light from the moon would charge my batteries at night. Swore he saw it with his own two eyes. I knew better, and just let the BS continued to spill out of him to see how far he's take it. Perhaps we should start using UV moon screen on those cold, clear moonlit nights? Hahahaha
    Turned out he had read some story that turned out to be nothing more than someone's controller leaking just enough battery power back to the panels to light the charge LED :p
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Moonlight is at best about 13% of sunlight. Might reach 1 lux. That's 1/5000,000 of the sun. There simply is not enough light there to produce any power. I've had my MX60 "wake up" under full moon, but it supplies NO current and shuts down again. PV's don't produce from UV (which there is practically none of in moonlight anyhow).

    People who promote crap like this should go to jail and never get out. :grr
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  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Probably works about as well as their VAWT windmills...

    boB
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon
    stargate wrote: »
    Is this viable? 
    http://www.energievair.com/en/online-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_mod1.tpl&product_id=169&category_id=39&vmcchk=1

    Was thinking about it but can't find any other info than this site.

    And also they have a vertical wind generator. Would be great with my wierd wind in S.E. Oklahoma.

    Thanks

    You would have to be crazy to buy anything from them - they are either shysters or clueless.

    The VAWT - again you have to be crazy to buy one - there is not one documented case of the things working. Only companies flogging a dead horse.

    Russ
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #7
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    So I guess the answer is SCAM.
    How can a company stay in business with something that doesn't get word of mouth advertising. I guess because there factory-Store is in France.

    Too bad would have been nice.

    I have to say though I think I disagree about the VAWT.
    I have seen great big ones in commercial operation for decades.
    All it is is a generator with vertical blades instead of propellers and a tail.

    I was looking at these:
    http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/lenz2_turbine.htm
http://www.windgenkits.com/

    Are they just crap also?

    And here's what Wikpedia has to say about them: 
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_axis_wind_turbine

    I don't mean to be argumentative Russ, but it seems to me that there is something to VAWT from what I've read, but I don't know much about electronics.


    I bought a Windstream 400 watt and it was garbage and very noisy especially in my wind that changes direction minute to minute, so I know from experience these small wind generators are CRAP.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #8
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Stargate,

    I am always happy to hear about success stories about wind/etc... systems.

    Can you tell us a bit about your system, type, size, amount of power collected per day/month/etc. and how long it has been running... (either here or in a new thread)?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #9
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Just converted all lighting in my Mobil home over to 12V and have a Shurflo 9300 24V well pump.
    8 Durastart D8 wet-cell Tractor Batteries for storage.
    5000W Wagan inverter that I only use when the power goes off to run TV,refrigerator and a chest freezer.
    10,000W Lincoln propane welder/Generator that I also use when the power is off.
    180 Watts of cheap (expensive to me.LOL) solar panels that I have yet to install.

    I have a 400 Watt wind generator but it quit and it was too noisy anyway.
    The wind where I am is erratic to say the least and that is why I was asking about vertical wind generators. All seemed to be negative even though I have seen web links with positive views.

    I live way out in the country (over 100 miles to nearest city) so I don't have easy access to big stores and the higher the price of fuel gets the harder it is to go anywhere so I keep trying to find ways of living off the grid, but it is pretty hard with a small Social Security check each month. I joined this forum just to see if there was any information that I might be able to put to use. It's hard to get good solid info anywhere it seems. Everyone has an opinion and most are based on there feelings and hearsay and not much else.
    Common since told me that the solar power from moonlight was most likely not very efficient at best but I was hoping to find a reasonably priced VAWT to help with my power needs and as I posted I have seen many links about VAWT that were positive.


    Don't exactly know what you mean by "success stories".
    Just searching for what to do to make it all work.
    12V electrical knowledge is more based working on cars so I just do my best.
    Would be nice to know everything about everything but the older I get the harder it is to learn what's needed, so I just try and find useful information on the internet.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    For information on VAWTs try Paul Gipe's site at www.wind-works.org

    The guy is one of the world known experts on wind.

    He would not have a VAWT around except possible as a lawn sculpture.

    If you look hard enough on the net you can find someone to recommend most anything. Useless recommendations.

    VAWTs suffer from many short comings - biggest of which is simply that they don't work.

    Russ
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #11
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Hi Stargate,

    Here's a quick comparison of VAWT vs. HAWT output:
    First up the new Pramac VAWT rated at 1kW 13.5m/s: http://www.navitron.org.uk/popup_additional.php?gallery_id=247

    Pramac is a well known generator manufacturer.

    Next the 1kW @ 12m/s Futurenergy HAWT:
    http://www.futurenergy.co.uk/FE1012U%20(404).pdf

    The HAWT consistently produces around 20-100% more power than the VAWT. The VAWT starts catching up at higher wind speeds of more than 12m/s.

    That particularl VAWT is also double the price of the HAWT.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Third party testing results available? I have yet to see that from any VAWT except Mariah and that was a disaster as their machine suffered multiple failures.

    The machine they were delivering to customers basically fell apart.

    I have seen nothing reliable supporting VAWTs. Manufacturers data is meaningless.

    Russ
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    No third party results, that model was just recently released.

    The Pramac VAWT was designed by Phillipe Starck: http://inhabitat.com/philippe-starck-unveils-two-revolutionair-wind-turbines/ and produced by Pramac, so it supposedly has a lot of weight behind it. (Don't ask me how an industrial designer can become a wind expert overnight...)

    Even the manufacturer's own data shows that it produces half the power of a similar HAWT at double the price.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Hi Stephen -

    1) The Pramac turbine rated at 1 kW in 13.5 m/s winds puts out a whopping 50 watts at 5 m/s winds that are a lot more normal. I doubt the power curve is based on much more than dreams.

    2) On the Inhabitat site - the same page as this turbine they also show a designer turbine by this guy, the Maglev turbine, Optiwind and others. To me, not one is real.

    I quit even going to Inhabitat, Cleantechnica and all Green Options sites. It is fairy tale land there. They don't even try to keep one foot on the ground.

    An old boss of mine had a stock comment when during an engineering discussion someone said, 'I wish'. He would tell them to do no 2 in one hand and wish in the other - just see which fills up first.

    Russ
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #15
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon

    Ok then what can a poor man on fixed income buy. I paid $600 for a 400 watt Southwest wind and it was radically noisy and quit working. I had it repaired under warranty and it quit again again after the warranty ran out.

    I just want something to charge batteries but my wind never stays blowing from the same direction it is constantly changing direction.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon
    stargate wrote: »
    Ok then what can a poor man on fixed income buy. I paid $600 for a 400 watt Southwest wind and it was radically noisy and quit working. I had it repaired under warranty and it quit again again after the warranty ran out.

    I just want something to charge batteries but my wind never stays blowing from the same direction it is constantly changing direction.

    Shall we start a new thread in the general or wind section and explore exactly what it is you want to accomplish?

    Incidentally; the wind conditions you describe are some of the worst for turbines. They prefer steady, consistent air movement over any type of fluctuation. Whenever a HAWT has to change direction power production drops as it becomes reoriented. VAWTs don't have that problem, but they have another; the blades that the wind just blew 'round rotate right back into the wind! Some of the designs shield the "return" half, but that also creates turbulence around the blades - with resulting loss in power.

    (Note: if this is a disjointed response it's because my browser/netbook has developed a bad habit of jumping cursor - not sure I'm getting all the letters back in their appropriate places. :grr )
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Solar Power From The Moon
    stargate wrote: »
    Ok then what can a poor man on fixed income buy. I paid $600 for a 400 watt Southwest wind and it was radically noisy and quit working. I had it repaired under warranty and it quit again again after the warranty ran out.

    I just want something to charge batteries but my wind never stays blowing from the same direction it is constantly changing direction.
    How is the sun in your area?
    I'll tell you this. I had a Hornet wind turbine on the windy side of a lake, where almost every day we had strong breezes nailing us. We had no black flies, the wind took care of that, but the wind turbine? Hahaha
    Very few were the days when I got ANY useable power at all out of the turbine, but with my solar panes,. VERY FEW were the days when I didn't get at least SOME useable power, even on cloudy days, as long as it wasn't heavy overcast.
    $600 would get you a good PV panel, and until you could afford a controller, you could connect and disconnect the panel from your battery as needed. (Just be sure to make and break the connection away from the battery so sparks don't ignite any hydrogen gas floating around the batteries, and maybe even cause the battery to blow up in your face. A face full of acid is no laughing matter:(
    Good luck!
    PV's work, and good ones can be expected to last 25 or more years with no repairs.
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