Whole house surge suppressors

Re: Whole house surge suppressors

ggunn wrote: »

Is that the same Monster as Monster audio cables? I wouldn't know spit about their surge protectors, but if it's the same Monster, they are major snake oil salesmen in the audio world, plus their business practices are atrocious. In addition to making all sorts of unsubstantiated and unprovable claims about their cables, they file nuisance lawsuits against anyone who uses the word "monster" in any commercial enterprise, irrespective of context.

Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling a similar product at higher prices. Monster is simply selling a product similar to what APC, Belkin, Tripplite, Panamax, and other less responsible companies are also selling. Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent parts. Sell it for $7 in the grocery store. Or spend $25 or $150 for the same product from overhyped manufacturers.

Well, those most easily scammed by plug-in protectors will get as emotional and angry as so many were when Saddam had WMDs. Advertisers market to those who only believe the first myth they are told. The most easily deceived. Who then get angry when reality contracts their 'beliefs'. Explains why Monster products are so obscenely profitable. And why some here will post angry denials rather than hard facts and numbers. Did he provide those numbers? If not, suspect he is an easiest to scam.

Peter V (the OP) asks for effective surge protection:
> What to you guys think, will this be adequate or should I use a different brand/model?

A Leviton is a perfect example of a protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance. The superior solution also costs that much less money. And claims to protect from direct lightning strikes. Again, an honest poster who denies this must also include facts and numbers. He did not. I will.

A typical lightning strike is about 20,000 amps. So the answer that PeterV needs. A minimally sized 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Routine is for a protector to earth direct lightning strikes and remain functional. If you learn that, then Monster will not reap obscene profits. And a majority here did not know any of this. Just another reason why so many will post angry and nasty rather than numeric specs and hard facts.

Manufacturers that provide effective protector (that also cost tens or 100 times less money) include Leviton, General Electric, Square D, Clipsal, ABB, Keison, Siemens, and Intermatic. North Americans can obtain a superior Cutler-Hammer solution in Lowes or Home Depot for less than $50. Because the superior solution is not a profit center. Because the superior solution is at least 50,000 amps (yes - numbers) so that even direct lightning strikes do not cause appliance damage.

Reality based in science: Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Always. As in what was true and well proven science even 100 years ago. And unkonwn to a majority educated only by retail advertising and Monster Cable.

Re: Whole house surge suppressors

westom wrote: »

So how often every day is each dimmer switch and digital clock destroyed? That is what you posted.

What I posted (go look) is that the damage is cumulative. That means the damage caused by relatively small transients can add up and eventually cause electronic components to fail. I also posted (go see) that not all transients are the same.

westom wrote: »

Destructive surges occur typically once every seven years.

You, on the other hand, suggest that there are only two types of transients in the universe: those that cause instantaneous failure and those that are of no consequence whatsoever.

westom wrote: »

Either energy dissipates harmlessly in earth. Or that energy goes hunting for earth destructively [sic] via appliances. Those are your only choices.

I don't recall anyone saying otherwise. This universally agreed upon truism doesn't change the fact that whole-house SPDs assist in shunting transients before they damage sensitive electronics.

You believe all SPDs are snake oil and I don't. You believe all electronics are already designed to handle transients and that they handle them far better than any SPD could. I don't agree. I think common sense should inform you that manufacturers cut as many corners as the UL (OSHA) will allow. I think common sense will tell you that a $5 electronic gadget is not required to handle transients in any meaningful way, and indeed doesn't.

Me? I'll take my cues from no less an authority than the NFPA which--surprise--mandates that antennas utilize ADUs. Now why would they require that if all our consumer electronic devices can already deal with transients better than the ADU itself? Want to argue? Take it up with the NFPA. I'm sure your opinions will be given the attention they deserve.

Re: Whole house surge suppressors

Sparkletron wrote: »

You believe all SPDs are snake oil and I don't. You believe all electronics are already designed to handle transients and that they handle them far better than any SPD could. I don't agree.

You don't agree because you did not read what was posted. Have completely misrepresented what I said in a way that is convenient for you. I even gave reasons why. You ignored those reasons and numbers. And reposted urban myths - without any supporting facts or numbers.

All appliance contain protection. Protection so robust that even 120 volt electronics designed to 1970 standards withstood 600 volts without damage. Today, those standards are over 1000 volts. But again – numbers. Surges too small to harm electronics can damage grossly undersized protectors. A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts sells for $20 or $60. Or for $80 or $150 under the Monster name. Or sells at a profit in a grocery store for a profit at $7. I said that even with numbers. Why did you read something completely different? Well, my father so loved advertising. Those most easily deceived will belligerently deny any reality that contracts what they were told to believe. Those denials are why advertising works. And why (according to him) the most easily manipulated made it so fun.

For over 100 years, an effective protector (SPD to you) connects short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to protection. Single point earth ground. Some protection systems have no protectors. But must always have one component. Single point earth ground.

When selling a scam, a protector becomes a magic box adjacent to electronics, without the always required earth ground, that somehow makes hundreds of thousands of joules disappear.

Or read what the NFPA requires. Antenna has surge protection when connected directly to earth. No ADU is required. Earthing is required – for human safety. Not for transistor safety.

NFPA also requires every telephone wire to be earthed before entering the building. In every case, for human safety – not transistor safety. Or learn from Dr Standler.

Dr Standler writes in "Protection of Electronic Circuits from Overvoltages":
> The situation could have been resolved by use of mandatory standards ...
> At the time this book was written (1988 ), the author saw no hope of such standards
> being adopted in the United States for overvoltages on the mains.

Those standard still do not exist. Why am I quoting professionals? I learned this stuff with the numbers and from design experience. Am insulted that you post wild speculation, hearsay, accusations, outright lies, no numbers, and a nasty tone. For example, the NFPA is about human safety. Does not define or require transistor safety. You should know that before posting what the NFPA does not and would not require.

Please stop misrepresenting what I post. Please learn why every claim must include hard facts and the numbers. Subjective claims are defined as urban myths. Often exist to promote lies. Exist because advertising is that successful (and fun).

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. A summary reply without mentioning energy, again, misrepresents. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Said so many times that to ignore must be intentional.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. A power strip rated at hundreds of joules will magically absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Nonsense. And why Monster also markets them. As the NIST (another professional) says, "The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly." At what point is science no longer misrepresented?

I defined the plug in protector as ineffective. The NIST is blunter. Calls it 'useless". Do you also ignore the NIST?

In every case, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Always about the earthing. Always about where energy dissipates. Cost tens or 100 times less money.

The OP asked about effective protection. Defined is what works. Numbers that every minimally size protector meets to even make lightning irrelevant. And why the effective solution costs tens or 100 times less money. Also defined with hard facts, professional citations, 100 years of well proven science, and the always required numbers. Posted because I learned this stuff before posting. And defined why others, educated by advertising, can be so easily deceived. A post with nothing but hard technical facts includng why so some are are so easily deceived.

What every informed consumer needs to learn. And why the OP's Leviton is so effective ... but only if properly earthed.