newby here with some starting questions

i have a friend who is living in a cabin far from any power sorce, kinda like gilligan "not a single luxery". he has a car battery that he uses for lights and cb radio. ya not much. his only way to charge this batt is to jump off his car. so i have been reading and trying to understand. this is all new to me. where he lives he says it is always windy, not that that alone says much but he says they often see 50mph winds in winter. i hear tread mill motors are a good starting place and i found a free one.
i found a pacific scientific 1.7hp 3000rpm 90dcvolts. there is no amp rating listed. how do i go about rating this so i can plan on proper speed?
upon testing i found it produces power at what i would think would be a slow speed. i am testing it as of now still on the tread mill, just unpluged the motor wires and tested while walking and running on the tread. at a full run, roughly 9mph on the tread it produces 50volts. with the factory pully configuration i figure it is 2:1 and that would put the armatuer speed at 18-20mph. am i on base here?
is this a good motor to use?
do i need to jack shaft and pully's to step up the generator speed? i am thinking a jack shaft anyway so that future motor replacement will be quicker and more convienant.
the elements this windmill will be subjected to will usually be cold, sometimes very cold and very windy but in the 100's in summer. for making blades or props what is the best material to use in such cold extreme weather?
is there a certain size or shape blade that performs better in cold air? this is the time the power is needed most so i want to design to perform in cold weather best.
then i am cunfused on controlling the power. there is alot to read out there and so many diffrent oppinions and views i get confused. from one article i was reading a guy used four 12volt batts in series making 48volts. thus he did not need to regulate his voltage. this sounds simple but scary. is this right? will a car volt regullator work?
governing the prop speed is another subject i am lost completely on. i am thinking of rigging a minibike clutch to the shaft and welding the bell to the stand. then by adjusting spring tension on the clutch dogs i could tune them into braking at a certain higher speed. but will this just overheat and fail?
if you have any advise here please share it with me. i am lost but stuborn. this is going to happen even if i dont know what i am doing.

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: newby here with some starting questions

    There are better DIY wind turbine forums than us here...
    Regarding current:
    • Power = Voltage * Current; I=P/V
    • 1 hp = 745 Watts
    • I= 1.7 HP * 745 Watts per HP * 1/90 Volts = 14 Amps
    Problem is that you are probably looking at 300-400 RPM blade set or so and a 3,000 RPM motor... And a 10:1 transmission would lose lot of efficiency.

    Normally, people convert (or build) an alternator to spin at slower speeds (strong Permanent Magnet Armature, rewind the stator with smaller gauge wire).

    Generally, the easiest way to design a wind system is to use a 12 volt battery bank and direct attach the turbine output to the battery bank (through a bridge rectifier if you use an AC alternator vs a DC generator) to provide a constant load on the turbine (horizontal axis wind turbines tend to over speed if they are unloaded and can self destruct).

    To control the battery charging... You would use a "diversion" (or shunt) type charge controller connected to a load (typically some sort of electric heater). When the battery is fully charged, the charge controller turns on and dumps excess energy to the electric heater. There are several "solar" PV charge controllers that can also be configured as diversion controllers.

    There are a few controllers that do "MPPT" (maximum power point tracking) for wind turbines--but these are not cheap ($600 or a bunch more?) that do a very good job of getting more efficiency (and voltage) from wind turbines--It is something that you probably would not use with your first project.

    Just to let you know, I am not a big believer in small wind and would suggest solar PV panels first--And if you want a wind project, do that second.

    Before you spend a lot of time with the DC motor, look through the links/websites above and see if there are better ways for you to do your project.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: newby here with some starting questions

    I have a wind turbine and it isn't producing much power.
    It needs a little work, I need to put it up much higher and change out the blades.
    Solar seems much more constant, but I have not built any panels yet.
    The big problem for home wind power is trees and other buildings. There are 2 ways to beat that problem, build a tower or live where its flat with no trees or other buildings.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • MisterB
    MisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭
    Re: newby here with some starting questions

    Even if you live where it is flat, you want to be a good distance above the ground. The wind speeds up the higher you go--friction of air mass moving against the ground. There is a direct correlation between power output of a turbine and tower height even without taking the effects of turbulence caused by trees and buildings.

    And in an off the grid situation, it's always easier and cheaper and simpler to do the solar first, if nothing else because the solar industry, unlike small wind, doesn't tend to over rate their products and exaggerate their specs. The cheap PMA alternator based turbines out there--or the diy kits--are not very good. The most you can realistically expect from such a turbine is around 200-250 watts in a good installation 30 feet above all obstructions in a 300 foot radius and they are almost useless in the rooftop installtions many of the makers and vendors recommend. Not to mention they don't do well at all in low wind speeds.
  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: newby here with some starting questions

    You might be able to get 250w at the most.
    From what I have seen so far that seems fair.
    My cheap wind out put power meter is "kill-a-watt" meter from lowes. So I know when and how much its producing.
    Funny thing is today is my best power production day thus far and I need the wind to die down so I can extend the tower.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • GreenPowerManiac
    GreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    Re: newby here with some starting questions

    Mr. Chilly4x4,

    Blades, blades, blades:
    Is there a certain size or shape blade that performs better in cold air?

    I've had my turbines up for almost 2 years and have learned under extreme weather either way cold or hot or even windy. Buying blades is the easiest way to go, however, you may not find what you need. The idea is to get the most wind in a confined space as possible. I started my blade lengths at 30" each. Major disaster when something runs into it like hail or high winds. They fracture under the slightest stress when cold, weather beaten or impacted. Right now I just repaired one (the yellow bladed one on my site) from our recent Blizzard and 70mph winds. I'm still finding fragments on the lawn. What I've learned from this and other times is that you don't need the extra blade length. I've made some new ones at about 18" long each out of 6" PVC cut to shape. The pitch goes from flat (on the hub) to perpendicular on the ends. Such a shape catches the wind easily because of more surface area in a smaller space. Also this makes the blades much more rigid to impact and speed.

    Other questions involve "Lack of wind source"
    I'd do some experimentation in your yard and it'll cost you about .99 cents plus tax. Go and find one of those pin wheel things the kids love to play with. Place them in certain areas of the yard, as high as you can and see where the wind tunnels are in your yard, if any.

    Small wind turbines don't produce much power to speak of. 1 - 10 amps each, I'll get on average per day. Say figuratively, 100-1000 watts /24 hours = 4.16 - 41.16 watts per hour. I'll average 1-5 amps per day on a 3 phase A/C system rectified to 12v D/C and Inverted to 120v A/C for use. Combining wind/solar would be a better option and hydro would cover most aspects of generating power 24/7 365. Solar panel making can be tricky and it has its own slew of issues to deal with. I know, I've made 33 panels of my own.

    And lastly, B.B. is right about wind power. Focus on something that doesn't spin, makes noise and rests quietly on rooftops. Your neighbors will appreciate it. Messing with D/C motors from everything I read so far is not very long lived. Wind power works best with old school alternator technology and the PMA modifications. Those Big white wind turbines you see on the wind farms are capable of around 2.5 megawatts each and work on the same alternator PMA technology. I personally like the hydraulic versions since there's much less moving parts and produces around 5 megawatts each.
    Nature's Design & Green Energy on FaceBook : Stop by and "Like" us anytime.. Many up-to-date articles about Renewables every day.
    WWW.GreenAnything.Net    Ad free website.
    Lots of DIY Renewable Energy Projects on ETSY : Solar Panel builds, Wind Turbine builds, Rain Barrel build,etc.  
  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: newby here with some starting questions

    I like the idea of DIY blades.
    Do you have any additional info on it?

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.