Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

wrdaigle
wrdaigle Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
I just bought an off-grid house that came equipped with a Bergey XL.1. For some reason the unit keeps tripping a breaker. I have only been in the house for about 2 months and the breaker has tripped about 6 times. I seems to happen any time we have wind gusts predicted around 40mph. The breaker is 60amp. I would rather throw the breaker than burn up the power center, but it is somewhat frustrating when it happens while I'm away. The breaker is installed inside the power center and it appears to be after market. The unit is about 6 years old and was returned to Bergey about a year ago for service.

Any thoughts? Any other bergey owners out there?

Bill
16 L16 (24V config), 1500W solar, Outback MX60, Twin VFX3524, Bergey XL.1, Kohler 12RES

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Breakers can get old and fail (trip at lower than spec. current)--especially if they been tripped by actual usage before (or simply turned on and off by the owner).

    You can also check the wiring blocks/bus bar connections around the breaker and make sure they are not corroded or getting hot/scorched (poor electrical connections).

    Also, what is the voltage of your battery bank? If it your battery voltage is low (less than 50% charged, failing cells, etc.) it is possible for it to draw more current than "normal" from the turbine.

    What happens to the turbine when the breaker opens? Most HAWT need the load of a battery bank (or resistor bank, or shorted output) to keep the turbine from over-speeding and possibly self destructing. Does it have a second switch to shunt the output, furl, set a mechanical brake, have blade feathering or what?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    I see confusion in Bergey's specs: the data shows a peak output of 1600 Watts but the performance graph shows a little over 1 kW. This is where it gets tricky.

    1600 Watts / 24 Volts = 66 Amps. You're unlikely to see that as the charge Voltage should be regulated to ~28.4 = 56 Amps. But something is causing too high current. It's supposed to have electronic torque control and an auto furling system. It may not be furling properly in the high wind, or something may be affecting the regulation.

    Do you have a DC clamp meter you can put on the line and see just how much current is really flowing? No sense overlooking the possibility of a defective breaker. Checking the Voltage output would be good too. It's a bit more difficult to ascertain if the furling mechanism is working properly. If you can, physically inspect it up close and make sure everything is moving as it should (no stuck components).

    Monotonous step-by-step testing time. Is the current too high, is the Voltage right, et cetera.
  • MisterB
    MisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    I just looked up the Bergey XL.1 at their website and it's maximum power is rated at 1300 watts which equates to around 54 amps @ 24 volts. Yours is obviously performing at above the rated maximum and you need a larger circuit breaker, 80 amps would be my minimum estimate. The rectifier is on the generator which means you can't break the turbine by shorting the 3 phase AC output. The mechanical furling must work fairly well because the dump load is optional in the manual but if there is one, I've discovered that dump currents are usually about twice as much as charge currents which means that you might need an even bigger circuit breaker and if there isn't one, it might be a good idea to put one in because this will augment the mechanical furling and slow the turbine down in high wind conditions when the battery is charged.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Looking through still more data. What MisterB said is true; the max power rating is now 1300 Watts.

    Another interesting and potential clue turned up: it says the dump load breaker is 60 Amps. It should supply up to about 35 Amps for charging, then if the batteries are fully charged feed power off to the dump load. So now we wonder what is being used for that purpose and if anything has gone wrong there.

    Owner's Manual, in case you don't have it: http://production-images.webapeel.com/bergey/assets/2010/7/28/67958/XL1.24.OwnerManual.V2.2.pdf
  • MisterB
    MisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    In reading the manual a little more, there is a part about a blown fuse mode and that says the main fuse on the DC battery connection should be 90 amps. If the 60 amp breaker is between the controller and the batteries, this breaker should be replaced by a 90 amp one. The dump load section says that the dump load should be higher than .5 ohms and if the breaker is on the dump load, the dump load needs to have more resistance.
  • MisterB
    MisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Here is the section from the manual about fuse sizing:


    PowerCenter Fuses
    The PowerCenter has four fuses. If you blow
    (fail) one or more of these fuses you may replace
    them using the following specifications and parts
    identifiers (P/N means part number):
    Battery Fuse: 90-amps; Buss P/N JJN-90 or Little
    Fuse P/N JLLN-90
    Turbine Fuse: 70-amp or 75-amp; special order
    because of the L-shaped mounting tabs, but you
    can use a Buss P/N JJN-70 or Little Fuse JLLN-
    70 by also installing 2 x M6 brass nuts per post
    (before placing the new fuse) to accommodate the
    straight tabs on the stock fuse.
    Dump Load Fuse: 60-amp or 63-amp; Buss P/N
    JJN-60L or JJN-60, or Little Fuse JLLN-60, using
    2 x M6 brass nuts per post as described for the
    Turbine Fuse.
    Solar Fuse: 30-amp; Buss JJN-30L or JJN-30,
    or Little Fuse JLLN-30, using 2 x M6 brass nuts
    per post as described for the Turbine Fuse.
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Looks like the guys have some good suggestions related to breaker size.

    Just a sidenote... I've been told that the XL.1 is actually designed to be OK freewheeling in the wind. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it since it seems senseless to me to stress a turbine with excessive high RPM operation, but apparently Bergey says it's OK. The blades are supposed to be special, high strength fiberglass (not like normal fiberglass).
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    I'll suggest the OP download the Bergey manual, then go through the tedious process of checking every inch of his system as though it were a new install. You can become very familiar with what you've got and how it should work that way, and we need that familiarity! :D

    This unit supposed to regulate itself via furling (the dump load is optional and that seems to be the breaker that's tripping), but there is also quite extensive programming functions to the control center. These include different Voltage set levels (default 28.1 - should max out at 46 Amps) and operation modes like "slow".

    I'll shut up about it now unless someone asks me a specific question. :p
  • wrdaigle
    wrdaigle Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Wow, I was hoping for any response at all. Those are all great suggestions. I really need to put together a wiring diagram for my whole system and start analyzing each individual piece. Something seems particularly off with the Bergey. I don't know exactly what I'm producing for power since it doesn't have a meter on it. I can say that I produce significantly more power on a sunny day (4-5KWH) without wind than on a windy day without sun. If I'm getting strong enough winds to throw a breaker on the unit, it seems like I should be able to produce 4KWH in a day.

    I will roll up my sleeves and get to work. Thanks everyone.

    Bill
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    As far as wind vs solar production...

    I have 2.1kw pv and a SWWP H80 1kw wind turbine. Statistics for the last 6 years reflect the 1kw turbine producing about 600kwhrs and the pv producing 2200 - 2300 kwhrs on a yearly basis. This year's figures not compiled yet.

    If the Bergey produces better than the H80 great, but don't count on a 1kw turbine producing more than 1/3rd of what your pv produces IME.

    Both wind and solar charge controllers have accumulating meters so the figures are accurate. My avg wind speed is about 4.5meters per second...back figured from production (on the SWWP documentation).

    Ralph
  • wrdaigle
    wrdaigle Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    On average, I expect to produce a lot more solar than wind since windy days seem to come along a lot less frequently than windy days. Bit I would expect those occasional truly windy days to be big producers. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Bill
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Hi Bill
    It's been years since I took daily readings of production (the first year of operation), but I've seen 5-7 kwhr days from the wind. They are few and far between though, usually you don't want to be out in that kind of wind.

    If memory serves the most productive day was 11 or 12kwhrs, but that might be selective memory working.

    Ralph
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Also, if you are off-grid--your are limited by your battery bank capacity and how much power you can use at that time...

    If you are grid tied with 1 month / 1 year net metering--obviously the utility can "store" that power for use at any time.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    Duh moment! Thanks Bill, I'd kinda forgotten that my consumption is all off-grid related, not a function of what could really be harvested if net metering. I can't net meter because of my 10kw system...the rules say only 10kw per connection point (transformer in my case). The utility makes a dandy battery charging power source.

    Ralph
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    I have 2 xl.1's in SW MN. The reason it has a 60 amp Breaker is that the 63 amp fuse they originally came with wouldn't open before the generator windings were toast. I had one fixed under warranty and they sent me the breaker kit for my second one. The tripping seems to be a problem in high wind area's. I get wind gusts in excess of 80 mph. One thing to check is how level your tower is, if the generator isn't level or guy wires tight so that it isn't keeping it level that can add to the problem. I've seen these produce at least 1.5 times rated output.
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Bergey XL.1 Tripping Breaker

    That's the beauty of the new Midnite Solar Classic controller. It allows the turbine to run at higher voltages and lowers the current flow. Less stator heating and less likely to burn out the stator windings.

    Midnite worked closely with Bergey in developing a new high voltage XL.1 that will come packaged with a Classic controller.

    http://www.midnitesolar.com/

    Edward