Grid tied monitoring solutions?

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Energy Efficiencies
Energy Efficiencies Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
in Grid Tie and Grid Interactive Systems #1
I have been searching this forum and havent found a list of grid tied monitoring solutions. I personally have two clients that want to add this functionality to their systems. They both have SMA inverters. I know SMA has two solutions available. One is their web box, then they have the sunny Beam. I am not sure I want either of these systems. I am possibly looking for a non-proprietary solution so I can use it with any install. I want the clients as well as myself to have the ability to get online and see real time as well as look at past production, usage, etc.Is there anything like this? I also dont want my clients to pay monthly fees to have monitoring. Please let me know what is out there that works well with the SMA, and possibly something that works on any system.

Thanks,
Jeff
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  • Ravs
    Ravs Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭
    #2
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?

    Try looking at www.welserver.com

    They have a pretty neat system that can be configured just about any way you want. Combined with a wattnode meter, anything can be monitored and logged. This system requires 'hobby' level skills to set up and operate, but I have one and I think it is neat.
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  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?
    Energy Efficiencies wrote: »

    ... list of grid tied monitoring solutions.

    ... I am possibly looking for a non-proprietary solution so I can use it with any install. I want the clients as well as myself to have the ability to get online and see real time as well as look at past production, usage, etc.Is there anything like this? I also dont want my clients to pay monthly fees to have monitoring.

    Please let me know what is out there that works well with the SMA, and possibly something that works on any system.

    Jeff, take a look at the "PV Monitoring" article in Home Power Magazine, Oct./Nov. 2010 issue, starting on page 84. Here you'll find many systems discussed, sorted in groups like Inverter-Tied Monitoring (proprietary, including SMA's offering), Inverter-Independent Monitoring (most require a monitoring fee), Module-Level Monitoring, and Other.

    For a completely non-proprietary and no monitoring fee solution, that includes real time reporting via web site that clients and installers can use alike, like Ravs mentions above, take a look at the Web Energy Logger (WEL), at http://www.welserver.com .

    Many of the 400+ installations are viewable, with the listing at http://www.welserver.com/listofsites.htm .

    I have an 8 KW grid-tied solar PV system that is well monitored, inluding real time performance and historical information, using the WEL system, at http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043/ , to give you illustration of possible ideas with the WEL monitoring solution.

    Hope this helps.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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  • poleikleng
    poleikleng Solar Expert Posts: 29 ✭
    #4
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?

    Will someone please briefly explain how to setup the Web Energy Logger regarding your solar photovoltaic system? Thanks.

    Dave
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?

    I use a Ted 5000 with 3 points of monitoring to measure my stuff, see link in my signature below. Give it a chance to load.

    The 3 monitoring points consist of 2 load (MTU 1 & 3) and 1 solar (MTU 2).
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  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?
    poleikleng wrote: »
    Will someone please briefly explain how to setup the Web Energy Logger regarding your solar photovoltaic system? ...

    Pretty straight forward:

    (1) A Continental Controls WattNode watt-hour transducer on both sides of the residential (grid) service entrance. Model WNB-3Y-208-P. You'll need the 300 Hz option to work well with the WEL. This unit puts out pulses proportionally to positive power (net consumption) on Channel 1, and pulses proportional to negative power on (i.e. exporting power) on Channel 2.

    (2) Another WattNode on both sides of the inverter, AC side before it connects to the house circuit breaker panel box. Same model as above, and same 300 Hz option. The unit will put out pulses proportional to the inverter's AC power output on Channel 1. Channel 2 is unused.

    This setup uses 3 of the 6 WEL pulse counting inputs.

    The above will deliver high accuracy, and, it's how I'm set up. The downside is it requires 2 WattNode units.

    Continental Controls does offer a PV Option where the above can be done with one WattNode and one less CT (one CT for both sides of the inverter's AC output). The downside here is it's less accurate measuring inverter power.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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  • Energy Efficiencies
    Energy Efficiencies Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #7
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?

    Thanks for the info....but after looking at the equipment needed and complexity, is there something I am missing that wouldnt just have me use proprietary manufacturers equipment? The GUI is typically more pretty with the proprietary systems, isnt is? We are looking at roughly similar money for a proprietary system vs non proprietary. And simplicity definitely comes to mind hooking up proprietary... What am I missing?
    Thanks,
    Jeff
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?

    These guys do a number of different monitoring solutions: http://www.solar-log.com/en/products-solutions/product-overview.html
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  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?
    Energy Efficiencies wrote: »
    ... after looking at the equipment needed and complexity, is there something I am missing that wouldnt just have me use proprietary manufacturers equipment?

    Jeff, I think you have a good summary view - I don't think you're missing anything.

    There's a growing market for solar PV monitoring, as witness those described in Michael Brown's excellent article in Home Power Magazine I referred to earlier. You have lots of choices, and certainly no installation effort (i.e. Enphase where it's built in to each panel with the monitoring data transmitted over already existing power wiring) with fancy GUIs are key solar PV monitoring market expanding features.

    The WEL has proven to be particularly attractive as a broad monitoring product that accommodates a lot more than just power measurement (i.e., temperature, humidity, wind speed, atmospheric pressure, water flow, gas flow, solar insolation, DC current, AC voltage, etc.) It simply focuses on accommodating a lot of different sensor types (1-wire technology, pulse output, contact closure, and 4-20ma commercial sensors), along with providing a real-time web site for each customer, at a very low cost point.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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  • poleikleng
    poleikleng Solar Expert Posts: 29 ✭
    #10
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?

    Bill,

    Did you install the Web Energy Logger and the WattNode watt-hour transducer or was it installed by an outside source?

    Dave
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  • Jburgess
    Jburgess Solar Expert Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?
    a0128958 wrote: »

    Continental Controls does offer a PV Option where the above can be done with one WattNode and one less CT (one CT for both sides of the inverter's AC output). The downside here is it's less accurate measuring inverter power.

    Bill,

    Could you explain this a little more. Why is using one CT for both wires less accurate to measure the inverter?
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  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?
    poleikleng wrote: »
    Did you install the Web Energy Logger and the WattNode watt-hour transducer or was it installed by an outside source?

    Dave, I installed my WEL and my WattNode watt-hour transducers. Installation of the WattNodes is about the same effort/complexity of installing a TED.

    Overall, the WEL tries to make it possible for people to build their own very lowe cost monitoring system without requiring a lot of detailed technical knowledge, but, it does expect the average use to be somewhat technical, with an eagerness to learn more about their particular setup.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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  • a0128958
    a0128958 Solar Expert Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Grid tied monitoring solutions?
    Jburgess wrote: »
    Could you explain this a little more. Why is using one CT for both wires less accurate to measure the inverter?

    If the load is unbalanced (relative to the neutral) then there will be some inaccuracy. Continental Control has some detail about this in their written material on the WattNode PV option.

    Best regards,

    Bill
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