My 10.1KW System

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  • jcgee88
    jcgee88 Solar Expert Posts: 154 ✭✭
    #62
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    mr.radon wrote: »
    ... I've thought of re-routing the pipe out the side of the house. So that is always an option.

    I have been thinking of replacing my 25-year old furnace,
    though it still works perfectly, to take advantage of the
    Federal tax credit. In talking with the furnace contractor,
    he told me that current practice with high efficiency
    furnaces is to route the exhaust pipe out the side of the
    house rather than a chimney that goes through the roof.
    This would then give me the option of removing the flue
    entirely (not just the cap), except that I would have to
    figure out what to do with the gas water heater exhaust,
    which shares the current flue.

    John
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #63
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    to quickly pop in here, if you have another gas appliance using that flue then you can't eliminate it just because the furnace will now exhaust out of the side of the house.
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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #64
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    jcgee88

    OT: A new flue is run due to the fact most new heaters/boilers have a closed air system. The flue has both the intact and exhaust vents for the unit.
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  • dagr51
    dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    #65
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Install a new 90%+ water heater, too. They vent out the side wall in the same fashion as the new furnace.
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #66
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Well I got a lot of prep work done for this weekend. I want to finish up with the grunt work (aka - panel lifting and installation) this weekend.
    I added the last few supports to the East (N) roof for the 242" rails. I need to install a few more standoffs, then the rails, then the inverters, grounding and then the panels (Saturday).
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #67
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Down to the last (6) standoffs! Only have (1) 242" rail left to install. Have all (45) Enphase Micro inverters mounted on the rails. All the clips are pre-positioned. Nice to have the garage back!
    Have a weather front moving through tomorrow so I hope it holds off till I can get the other (6) standoffs installed.

    Saturday I should have all the panels up. WooHoo....
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #68
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Had (4) friends come over today, they all arrived at 9AM and we went to work. The weather window opened up to.
    I got off the roof last night just as the rain started. Lots of rain came down but it stopped around 6AM.
    We started lifting panels in place at 9:30. Took a quick break at 11:00, finished at 11:45 right when it started to rain good again. By 12:00 I bypassed the Netmeter (temporary for testing).
    At 12:10 I threw the AC disconnect switch. At 12:15 (45) Enphase micro-inverters switched to production mode and blinked from red to green. My meter started to spin backwards. My TED display (output of solar panels) registered 1250W. I love it!
    Threw the AC disconnect, rewired the Netmeter Will get the inspections done when I get the plastic labels installed.

    Took the crew minus (1) out for lunch.

    Some pictures.
    I roped up to install the last standoffs last night. Here are the EN roof's rails. These are 242" long. Note the drop off. I roped up after I stumbled and nearly took a tumble. My feet caught me on the gutter, lucky for me I reinforced my gutters three years ago so they can hold body weight.

    IMG_1099.jpg
    Installed:
    IMG_1102.jpg


    The Crew.
    IMG_1106.jpg
    IMG_1107.jpg
    Notice all the rain coming down.
    IMG_1108.jpg
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  • drees
    drees Solar Expert Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    #69
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Nice work! Now time to reap the benefits. :D
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #70
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    looks good. i can imagine your feeling when you flipped that switch and saw it going backwards. give yourself and everybody else there a pat on the back for a job well done.8)

    how did you get them to work so cheap?:confused:
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #71
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    niel wrote: »
    how did you get them to work so cheap?:confused:

    Friends help friends. They're all engineers; two EE's, two ME's. So they were all curious. A couple are interested in doing their house(s).

    I'm now very motivated to get the inspectors out there. Need to call the shop about the labels.
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #72
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Very nice. Very clean. I like the nice caulking job around the new boxes by the meter.

    The journeyman who trained me used to say, "If you get every detail perfect, then when you are done, the whole freakin' job will be perfect".
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  • nvyseal
    nvyseal Solar Expert Posts: 108 ✭✭✭✭
    #73
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    mr.radon wrote: »
    Friends help friends. They're all engineers; two EE's, two ME's. So they were all curious. A couple are interested in doing their house(s).

    Well it looks like you're going to be installing quite a few more systems. :cry:
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #74
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Got all my labels made and will install tomorrow. Have the electrical inspection day after tomorrow. I'm going to wait to pop rivit the labels till he shows up just to make sure they are right. I'll have the drill and pop rivit gun on the ready.

    I also registered all the panels and inverters with Enphase, so I should have my web site up and running. I found that my signal will be better if I move the router closer to the main panel. Not a big deal as I had been meaning to do this for a long time. The signal strength upstairs has never been good with my router.

    I hope to not get any hits on the inspection. Keeping the fingers crossed.

    I have a nice street view of the house I'll post. Never realized how awesome it feels to come down my street and see the panels up there.

    After all the inspections are over there are one or two tweeks I want to make that are just cosmetic. One panel is not flush because of poor framing. I'm going to cut a 4" standoff to the right height to level that panel off.

    We had a LOT of rain over the weekend. On water got in. looks good so far. But I did find a small leak in one of my gutters.
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #75
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    mr.radon wrote: »
    The signal strength upstairs has never been good with my router.

    Better antennae can help a lot.
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  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    #76
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Let us know how the power output is on some of those typical Pacific NW cloudy days. Just curious.
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #77
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Today I produced about 39Kwhrs. It was sunny all day. Envoy was not hooked up for most of the time. I based this off the TED 1001 I have hooked to the PV service panel.
    In the rain I'm not sure yet as the day it rained and I ran the system it was not on for the entire day. PV Watts says I should average 19Kwhr/day. So obviously on a sunny day I'm way over.

    Had to delay the electrical inspection. Too busy at work and then the guy said I better have a ladder to get on the roof that is tied down per OSHA, plus roof tie downs, plus blaaa, blaa, blaaa. I told him I can't take off for the five hours he wants and will do it tomorrow.

    Did a little more work in the mean time. Mounted the Envoy in the garage next to the service panels with internet access. When I'm done with this installation the cord will be hidden.
    002Envoysnewhomewithinternet.jpg

    Installed all the labels.
    003Newmeterandoldmeter.jpg

    This is a picture of the West face from the street. Yeah, I need to mow the yard been busy...(thats what I say to the wife)
    002Viewofhousefromstreet.jpg
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  • AntronX
    AntronX Solar Expert Posts: 462 ✭✭
    #78
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Nice to see your system completed. Where are remaining 15 panels? Can you post wider view of your system from your neighbor's perspective?
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #79
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    I posted PDF's of the layout a while ago. I've attached the top view with panels as a jpg. The E (north) roof have a 2X6 row (12) and the S (east) roof has a row of 2 and then one more (3).
    So far the Envoy is reporting production of the three different azimuths to what I expected. Even the panel being shaded (winter) from my gas exhaust is doing what I thought it would. Will be interesting to get a "FULL" day and then several months of data. I've been testing and moving the Envoy around too much to have much record of what I'm producing. Somehow I thought the micro inverters recorded what they are doing till they see the Envoy, but they just report and delete. So no Envoy no data. No communication to the Envoy no data. You'd figure with simple memory chips so cheap they could have made the micro inverters a little more robust in this area.
    I'm thinking of backing the Envoy up with something to monitor my electrical production and some home loads real time. TED 5001???

    EAST

    west_roof_withpanels.png
    WEST


    The hill really drops off so there is no place to take a picture of the other 15. (airplane I guess)

    I don't have any neighbors behind my house, there is a salmon spawning creek and then a new high school off in the distance.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #80
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    mr.radon wrote: »
    I'm thinking of backing the Envoy up with something to monitor my electrical production and some home loads real time. TED 5001???

    You can see from my signature I have a 3 MTU TED5000 (#1 Main House Load, #2 Generation solar, #3 Load from second building) . It works pretty well once you work out the kinks. MTU are very sensitive to any X10 traffic on the line and I looked for the right circuit to use for the communication stuff to act acceptably, some people swear a X10 filter is required to get it to work, I found this not the case. There is a support forum link off the TED website if your interested in further research.
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  • drees
    drees Solar Expert Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    #81
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Nice work! Will be interesting to see how the different facets perform once you get the Enlighten monitoring up and running with the Envoy. You nearly maxed out the surface area on your roof! Only missing panels on your south-east facet. :p
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #82
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Well the L&I inspector just left with (5) HITS... :roll:
    Not so bad:
    1) I did not use THHW/THHN wire to the outside boxes.
    2) I separated the ground from the wire to the outside boxes, I get the reason.
    3) I need to protect the wire to/from the outside boxes.
    4) My Netmeter box requires 6AWG or larger wire. I looked real hard at the label, he's right its a 6 not an 8
    5) I need to cover (2) 3/8" holes in the service panel with plugs

    1-4 I can fix by using THHW - 6-3 AWG wire.
    5 - is easy

    He did look at my calculations 190W * 45 = 35.625A * 125% = 44.53A He said using a 40A circuit breaker is JUST FINE! This is because they are facing different directions. None will be producing max power at the same time. He bought the explanation. I showed him the PV Watts simulated output and the SketchUp shadow model. He said the NEC Code needs to be re-written on Solar systems. He understands the logic. NEC needs to make exceptions for arrays that face different directions.
    He loves the micro-inverters. Looked at the installation and said, "Why would anybody bother with large high voltage DC-AC inverters!" First time he had ever seen an Enphase. We lifted a panel to give him a look at the inverter, inverter ground, rack ground and rail grounds. Very interested in grounds.
    He liked the ground blocks in the junction boxes, never seen that he said. Told him the blocks (bars) were cheaper then a single splice nut.

    I need to get up on the roof somehow ;) I was pushing it with 45 panels...
    drees wrote: »
    Nice work! Will be interesting to see how the different facets perform once you get the Enlighten monitoring up and running with the Envoy. You nearly maxed out the surface area on your roof! Only missing panels on your south-east facet. :p
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #83
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    It's nice when you get an inspector who is willing to interpret in your favor. Doing well thought out and really clean work like you did can go a long way toward impressing him in your favor.

    A few corrections...ah well, you pay your ante and you take your chances. :D
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #84
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    Well two trips to the electric store and +$100 I'm up to code. I installed 1" liquid tight from the PV panel to the AC disconnect switch, and from the netmeter base to the main panel. That stuff is HARD to cut. I put THHN 6-3 with 10AWG bare ground wire.
    I wonder how much I'm going to make with all the overgauged wire I have? LOL
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #85
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    I've always cut liquid tight with a hacksaw.
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  • drees
    drees Solar Expert Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    #86
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    mr.radon wrote: »
    I installed 1" liquid tight from the PV panel to the AC disconnect switch, and from the netmeter base to the main panel. That stuff is HARD to cut. I put THHN 6-3 with 10AWG bare ground wire.
    I thought you had to run insulated wire in conduit, even ground wires? Always wondered how you were supposed to get a #6 continuous ground down from the roof doing so... Of course, I think this only applies to EMT and not liquid tight but it may make for interesting grounding discussion, anyway. ;)
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #87
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    I don't have to take a continuous ground off the roof. Each array has a 6AWG drop down and I splice to the 10AWG ground wire in the 10-3 ROMEX. That goes to the panel (3) 10AWG ground wires.
    I looked up NEC codes, they only require 10AWG all the way up to I think 60AMPs.

    My Enphase public link:
    http://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/4D3y8464

    My box before the inspection:
    003beforetheinspection.jpg
    Note the non-damp location wire and the funky thing I did with the neutral and ground. I guess this is a big no no. Being an engineer I fully understand this issue now.

    The new feed to the disconnect switch.
    004Afterwardliquidtight-1.jpg
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  • drees
    drees Solar Expert Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    #88
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    mr.radon wrote: »
    I don't have to take a continuous ground off the roof. Each array has a 6AWG drop down and I splice to the 10AWG ground wire in the 10-3 ROMEX. That goes to the panel (3) 10AWG ground wires.
    Oh, I know. But I have heard of some inspectors requiring one. My system is wired the same as yours (though not quite as neat! very professionally done!).

    I looked up NEC codes, they only require 10AWG all the way up to I think 60AMPs.
    mr.radon wrote: »
    My Enphase public link:
    http://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/4D3y8464
    Looks like the system is performing about how I'd expect so far. Will be nice to see more data as time goes on.
    mr.radon wrote: »
    The new feed to the disconnect switch.
    Looks very good!
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  • mr.radon
    mr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #89
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    drees wrote: »
    Looks like the system is performing about how I'd expect so far.
    Well I have yet to run the system for a full day hooked up to the box. All the data on the Enphase site is unreliable/corrupted; units dropping out, flaky internet,power interruption, testing. Most of what I've posted has been from my own instrumentation, I've been using a TED 1001 as a Netmeter.
    Yesterday's data (the little there is) was pretty good and showed me how cloud cover and rain will effect me.

    I just recently moved the Envoy to where it can talk reliably. I had to run a good deal of CAT5e cable from my router, move the router and the fiber optic cables... Somehow I think that took as much time fixing what the inspector found.
    Will be nice to see more data as time goes on.

    Same here. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!
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  • drees
    drees Solar Expert Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    #90
    Re: My 10.1KW System
    mr.radon wrote: »
    I just recently moved the Envoy to where it can talk reliably. I had to run a good deal of CAT5e cable from my router, move the router and the fiber optic cables... Somehow I think that took as much time fixing what the inspector found.
    Yes - the comms over power seems to be rather sensitive to noise if the Envoy isn't located very close to the panel that the strings are linked in to.

    In my case, I found that even having the Envoy plugged into an outlet that also had a surge protector plugged into it was enough to cause intermittent communication issues with some inverters.

    Their docs on utility scale installs with monitoring is interesting.

    http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/EnphaseAppNote_Large_Installation_M190.pdf
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  • FL SUN
    FL SUN Solar Expert Posts: 94 ✭✭✭✭
    #91
    Re: My 10.1KW System

    What a job! I'll be interested to see how your system performs. Thanks for posting for us to see.

    I am also having issues with my Envoy unit and signal strength. I am going to have to run Cat5 from one end of the house to the other to get it to acknowledge a signal from the AC line. Am doing that today.
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