New to wind & sun

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System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
would like to say "Hi" to all. please foregive any wrong spellings! have read the fourms often, has been a help with hook up and install of my remote power system & life stile. current system is: 2-FX 3524's turbos AC/DC prewired- 4 hub & mate, 1-MX60, 8- 80 watt BP solar panels (8- 190 watt 12 volt cynergys solar panels,not hooked up yet) 1-650 watt-3phase AC/ 24volt, hybrid wind gen- 38 ft self made schuled 40 2" pipe tower with 4 guide wires. 8- 6volt 270 amp hour deep cycle batterys. 2-24volt desulfators.AC and DC lighting arrestors not wired yet. Bought this outback system in 2005 was 2-FX2024T master failed both inverters & mate were sent back to OUTBACK & graded to the new soft ware in May 2010.
Live in remote Trapper Creek, Alaska. I knew enough to get into trouble.
I have a question about the solar wire up of the new 8 Cynergy panels PV-SC190J12 190 watt 17.2 volt, 11.04 amps, OC 21.6, ISC 12.1 amps? should I get a new MX60 MPPt charge controler for these solar panels? wiring the 190 watters up: serries/parrell for my 24 volt battery bank, will this exceed the rating of the MX60?
any sugestions as to the best way to serrires/ parrell wire for the most amp/current going into batterys? should the AC & DC side grounding be keep serperate? Best way to to ground the DC side?Thanks
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: New to wind & sun

    the maximum current with current mod to 70a with nec derating to 56a will mean a max of 1344w at 24v. your total watts in pvs comes to 2160w. even the new pvs will not be accommodated with just 1 controller as you have 1520w of new pvs. the excess in new pvs can be put to the original mx60, but the voltages need to be matched up to within 10% of each other between old and new strings and if you can make it within 5%. i don't know how you have the strings arranged, but i trust all 8 aren't in series as that exceeds the controller's abilities.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #3
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    Re: New to wind & sun

    Thanks for your fast replie Moderator. is the MX60 or Flex 80 outback charge controler the best MPPT controler out there or is there a better one you know of? the MX60 is ggod for 150 volts max and 1500 watts I think. I was planing to by a new controler during this winter, finding the best price serching the net, while paying off the new solar panels.
    the 8-12volt 80 watt 17.4 volts 4.56 amps wired series at 34.8 volts then parrelled the 4 sets at 17.6 amps going to the MX60. we are not getting much sun know, loseing 7 minites of sun a day. I will install the 190 watt pannels on a top of pole mount this spring. Ill have all winter to by or build the new solar mount.
    can i wire up the 8 new 190 watt panels in 4 sets of 2 in series for 34.4 volts each set and then parallel the 4 sets for 137.6 volts? I should be getting 44.16 amps to the charge controler from these 8 panels for total of 760 watt string. thanks for your reply.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,448 admin
    #4
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    Re: New to wind & sun

    Depending on what you are looking for--You might want to take a look at the 15amp/45amp/60amp Morning Star family of MPPT charge controllers. The bigger ones will operate at 140 VDC and take Voc up to 150 VDC too. The 60 amp TS MPPT controller even has a small webserver built in (if you want your data that way).

    At this point in time, the MS MPPT controllers are probably some of the most efficient charge controllers out there.

    Regarding maximum panel wattage---The MPPT charge controllers are rated as maximum current at 12 or 24 or 48 volts--So, if you are building out a larger system, if you go from 12 to 48 volts, you can support 4x the wattage of panels with the larger battery bank (as well as reduce the current/wire AWG sizes in your system)--Does cost you a new inverter/AC battery charger/etc...

    The Outback included a programmable output that you can use to turn on loads when the batteries are full, etc. I am not sure which other controllers out there that may have this built in.

    Lastly, depending on where the system is installed--You have to watch Vmp-array voltages > ~100 VDC... Above that voltage range--people who operate their systems in subfreezing conditions can have Voc-cold exceed 150 VDC. If your system is in the Caribbean--the warm "winter" conditions do allow a higher Vmp operating point.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: New to wind & sun

    ok for this setup for 24v battery banks you can leave the original controller as it is with the present pv setup on it, but you will place 2 of the new pvs in series and parallel them with the present pvs. 2 of the newer pvs must be placed into the original controller because of wattage constraints on the newer controller. as i figure it neither the old or newer controller need be more than 60a so adding any 60a mppt controller with downconverting capability will work. the old pvs total 640w and adding 2 new pvs (1 string) to that mix adds 360w for a total on your mx60 to 1000w and is below the 1152w max that is without modification. remember modifying would give it 56a at 24v and that's 1344w. you have 4 old pv strings and 1 new pv string on this cc at this point.

    what remains is 6 new pvs and the need for another 60a mppt controller. bb gave some recommendations that may suit. being you have 6 of them i say go with 2 series strings of 3. voltage will be 51.6v vmp and would help in wiring losses. (note that the mppt controller will convert the 51.6v to the proper 24v with programming.) the wires must still carry the 11.04a so wiring choices will be determined by you and you can use the voltage drop calculator on the forum to help you there,
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=29
    with 2 of those strings of 3 new pvs per string you will see 51.6v x 11.04a = 569.664w x 2strings = 1138.328w and is also under the max for nec purposes.

    this leaves no way for expansion unless you modify the mx60 for 70a (56a nec) and it won't be by much that you can expand. i am unfamiliar with hubs and stuff from outback, but this is doable without that stuff i think.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: New to wind & sun
    niel wrote: »
    i am unfamiliar with hubs and stuff from outback, but this is doable without that stuff i think.

    Okay, from the "ask the man who owns one" department ...

    You've got two FX inverters and one MX controller. You must have a MATE to program any FX, and if you want two to work together with/without the MX you've got to have the hub. This is how OB equipment talks to each other and keeps all the data (Voltages, times, battery temp) in line.

    As for how much you can put on an MX60: 60 Amps * system charge Voltage. No derating is necessary. Oddly, OB says this but many of us have found the venerable ol' MX actually operates at its best around 75% of capacity. No matter, on a 24 Volt system you can have 1600 Watts of panels.

    Since the OP's panels are two different sets and the total Wattage exceeds the limit, adding another MX60 (or FM60) and plugging it in to the hub is the best way to go.

    And dump the desulphators, as there is an issue with them interfering with proper MPPT function, particularly on OB units.
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