Shanghai Aeolus

ggunn
ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
in Wind Power Generation #1
I am pretty sure I know what the answer will be, but I have to ask anyway. The company I work for has a relationship of sorts with Shanghai Aeolus vertical axis wind turbines and our proprietor wants to market their products in the US. What do you think?

If anyone knows where I can find any test/performance data on them, that would be helpful. I have not been able to find any.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    ggunn wrote: »
    I am pretty sure I know what the answer will be, but I have to ask anyway. The company I work for has a relationship of sorts with Shanghai Aeolus vertical axis wind turbines and our proprietor wants to market their products in the US. What do you think?

    If anyone knows where I can find any test/performance data on them, that would be helpful. I have not been able to find any.

    Your last sentence says it all.

    If the company you work for wants to market these products, shouldn't they be getting the necessary info from the manufacturer (including independent testing results :roll: ) ?

    No data = walk away in my book.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Your last sentence says it all.

    If the company you work for wants to market these products, shouldn't they be getting the necessary info from the manufacturer (including independent testing results :roll: ) ?

    No data = walk away in my book.

    Oh, I totally agree. When I brought that very point up I was told to go find hard data as to what is wrong with them.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,658 admin
    #4
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    It is extremely difficult to make the standard horizontal axis wind turbines work well... And Vertical Axis Wind Turbines work less well than HAWT (at least so it seems).

    Here is a nice thread/article that compares a bunch of small wind turbines (both HAWT and VAWT) in a windy region in Holland:

    Small windpower a scam ? Survey says SO

    Here is another thread about another US mfg. of a vertical turbine... The problems all seem to be very similar:

    Windspire/Mariah questions

    At this point, VAWT's are just not worth spending money on right now (if ever) (again, in my humble opinion).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    a common place for testing many things we hold interesting is done at the sandia labs in new mexico. maybe search them or email them if they have anything on them.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    ggunn wrote: »
    Oh, I totally agree. When I brought that very point up I was told to go find hard data as to what is wrong with them.

    That's kind of a "backwards burden of proof": show me evidence they're no good! Where's the evidence that they are good?

    Anyone can start up a sham company tomorrow and there will be nothing to indicate their products are defective, no matter how hard you search. I'm not saying Shanghai Aeolus is a sham or that their products are no good, but it is up to them to prove their worth, not for others to disprove it.

    Given the track record of the small-scale wind industry as a whole, this is something to be aware and wary of.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    That's kind of a "backwards burden of proof": show me evidence they're no good! Where's the evidence that they are good?

    Anyone can start up a sham company tomorrow and there will be nothing to indicate their products are defective, no matter how hard you search. I'm not saying Shanghai Aeolus is a sham or that their products are no good, but it is up to them to prove their worth, not for others to disprove it.

    Given the track record of the small-scale wind industry as a whole, this is something to be aware and wary of.

    As I said, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, the mindset of my management, and I am trying very hard to avoid editorializing here, is that they will take SAWT's word for their products' capabilities unless I can find information to the contrary.

    I found these guys: http://www.smallwindcertification.org/ but they are very new and have not published any results yet.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    İ suggest to let them go ahead and waste their money if they are so stupid.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    russ wrote: »
    İ suggest to let them go ahead and waste their money if they are so stupid.
    Well, "their" financial well-being and mine are somewhat connected.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    ggunn wrote: »
    Well, "their" financial well-being and mine are somewhat connected.

    So maybe it's time to look around for a new job. The company you're with now has shown a decided lack of good business sense, in my opinion.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,658 admin
    #11
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    To be honest, the green marketing, government rebates, tax credits, and feed-in / tariff subsides can actually make economic sense to a company.

    Of course, that is why they put MBA's (business majors) at the head of projects rather than engineers. :roll:

    For the most part, I have never seen anyone publish a year's worth kWHr production (month by month) from any of these "Vanity" project VAWT's...

    Besides the liability of falling blades/mechanical assemblies and strobing from sun/shadow (there was a recent set of VAWT's installed next to an office building in San Jose--I would worry that the strobe effect would make any sun-side offices uninhabitable unless they had blackout drapes installed).

    You might take a look at this thread--And contact Adobe about their VAWT (Mariah?) installation (noise, mechanical issues, strobing, etc.). The TV report is from January of 2010--So they should have some information.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    Ah, MBA's!

    Aren't they the ones who came up with the idea of racing camels? :p
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    That is also the reason the economy is in the mess it is now MBA types - no known skills other than spin & BS.

    Engineers often make lousy CEOs but the MBA should be kept in the basement (locked in) for everyone's safety - throw in food scraps on alternate days!
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    russ wrote: »
    That is also the reason the economy is in the mess it is now MBA types - no known skills other than spin & BS.
    There are far too many people "earning" money by moving money around and far too few by actually producing something. My solution to the economic problems of this country is for the government to pay every man, woman, and child a million dollars. We could all invest it and live off the dividends; no one would ever have to work again. Wouldn't that be great?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus
    ggunn wrote: »
    There are far too many people "earning" money by moving money around and far too few by actually producing something. My solution to the economic problems of this country is for the government to pay every man, woman, and child a million dollars. We could all invest it and live off the dividends; no one would ever have to work again. Wouldn't that be great?

    You forgot the :p after that.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #16
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    İ could go for the million but İ want mine cash and upfront - none of that later stuff!:D

    Did you check out Paul Gipes site about the wind turbines?
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  • WisJim
    WisJim Solar Expert Posts: 59 ✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Shanghai Aeolus

    Or read Mick Sagrillo's small wind articles on the AWEA website.
    http://www.awea.org/smallwind/sagrillo/index.html
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