Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

ggunn
ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
in Solar Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner #1
Wind turbines covered in PV

http://www.bluenergyusa.com/index.html
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    Technically BS, looks like they built a "company" to get venture capital and eventual IPO, pretty common way to scam BIG money
    · Share on Twitter
  • lorelec
    lorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    Looks like they're a German company that's been around since the early 80's, so I doubt they're trying to scam people or they'd have probably sunk a long time ago. The vertical-axis turbine isn't anything new, is a proven concept, but if I remember correctly is not as efficient as horizontal designs. Covering it in solar cells...seems kind of gimmicky, but is there a technical reason why you couldn't generate power this way? At 18' tall and 6' in diameter, it's not exactly a table-top model.

    Marc
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #4
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    I agree--this is a company that is setup for government grants and "angel" investors looking for tax credits/write-offs... It is not a viable solution (yea--placing lots of solar panels and wiring in flexible rotating "wings" is going to be a cheap/long lasting source of power--it looks like they put some solar panels in the base--possibly as a backup plan when the wing cells don't work out)--in my humble opinion.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • lorelec
    lorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭
    #5
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    Yeah, Bill, I was kind of wondering the same thing regarding the reliability of transferring power from the solar cells to the stationary base...until I considered that many generators and motors use slip rings, too. Anyhow, I hate to dismiss something out of hand since I have no familiarity with it whatsoever. The company is large and has been around for 30 years...and evidently the TUV has been testing their solar cells for 18 years. Just doesn't seem like a fly-by-night deal to me...unless, of course, they're just not being truthful about their background.

    Marc
    · Share on Twitter
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    Placing fragile silicon PV's in the midst of what you hope will be a fairly steady and significant wind stream and spin them 'round at high RPM ... Yeah, that's always a good idea. :roll:

    Maybe put one on top and use it to excite the rotor in an alternator ...
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #7
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    The slip-rings/inductive coupling of some sort, etc.... I don't have a doubt that power transfer can be done (although, slip-rings appear to have been a failure mode with Skystream and their GT Inverter interface in times past).

    They are using the inventor's encapsulation technology to build flexible solar cells (basically semi-ridged solar wings). It sounds like they want to use those cells both for generating rotational torque and solar PV energy.... I just don't think that that technology (solar PV wing) will be practical in the long term--regardless of the low output of this type of VAWT assembly (with or without solar PV).

    I would expect more power output by just placing the equivalent solar panel on a pivot mount to track the sun... But unless you are near the north pole, the center of axis for solar PV panels would not be 90 degrees vertical. (Noon-time sun would be near zero output from solar array--but I guess that is where his dirt repelling/light attracting "nano-structures" in the encapsulation surface comes into play.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    You think company's can't go bad or go after grant/stimulus money without a viable product?

    Check out what Caterpillar did with fireflyenergy, they got close to 50 million I believe and just recently, without warning filed chapter7 BK ...

    If there is money to be had, there will be no shortage of "new" or "innovative" designs to accept the $$ regardless if they pass the basic sniff test.
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #9
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    Wow---FireFly goes chapter 7...

    Lots of people with money in that one--

    Mar. 15, 2010, 12:21pm PDT
    Here’s the latest sign that the next-generation battery business is just really tough for startups: On Friday and over the weekend local Illinois media reported that Peoria, Illinois-based battery startup Firefly Energy has stopped operating. Specifically The Peoria Journal Star reported on Friday that Firefly Energy had filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, and that the city of Peoria and Peoria County plan to follow legal action to recover $6 million in government loans that they gave the startup in 2007 (the Associated Press also reported the story).

    On Saturday the Peoria Journal Star also reported that while Firefly Energy is clearly not operating anymore, there is some confusion about whether the company has officially filed for bankruptcy yet. Regardless of the details of the bankruptcy, Firefly Energy, which was developing cutting-edge lead-acid battery technology based on carbon graphite foam for commercial and military electric vehicles, just couldn’t make the economics work..
    I see that they had hit "C" round financing... The few startups I have seen are very difficult to make viable if they even hit "B" round financing without a working product. Round "C" would appear to be a long shot.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    looks to be a scheme to me too no matter how old that company is. maybe i should slap pvs on the side of my car too and apply for $.
    · Share on Twitter
  • lorelec
    lorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭
    #11
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?
    Solar Guppy wrote: »
    You think company's can't go bad or go after grant/stimulus money without a viable product?

    I guess I'm just curious what inside information or firsthand evidence you have that would lead you to believe that this company is a fraud. That's a pretty bold claim to make.

    Marc
    · Share on Twitter
  • audredger
    audredger Solar Expert Posts: 272 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    I want one! The flashing blue lights as it spins in the sunlight would be too cool. Mount it between my pink flamingos in the front lawn .... could use it to help power my LED solar yard lights.

    How many mirrors would I need to direct sun to the backside of the "wing"? Yaw axis tracker to adjust for the seasons?
    · Share on Twitter
  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    I guess I'm just curious what inside information or firsthand evidence you have that would lead you to believe that this company is a fraud. That's a pretty bold claim to make.
    Marc

    Not a bold claim at all if you follow wind turbines.

    Check out what Paul Gipe has to say about this type of turbine at www.wind-works.org

    Maybe one could put an electric motor on it so it will turn to impress passers by:D

    Anytime the most important information a site makes available about their turbine concerns subsidies and incentives you can damn well bet that is all they have to offer.

    There are standard claims the scammers use and İ think these guys managed to hit just about everyone. There is no power curve - what 3rd party testing? İ didn't see any results. NREL tested Mariah as well - now Mariah would prefer that no one ever see the results!
    · Share on Twitter
  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    Just a thought Niel - maybe you could paste those cells all around the car - 360 degrees in order to get every little bit of sun.

    Probably it would be equally good to have a couple spare sets of cells in the closet.

    The slip ring connection should be normall enough but how much of the time are the cells pointed in an optimum direction. That part makes me think of the MİT thing where they proudly developed an oragami thing with cells on all sides.
    · Share on Twitter
  • lorelec
    lorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭
    #15
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?
    russ wrote: »
    Check out what Paul Gipe has to say about this type of turbine at www.wind-works.org
    ...
    Anytime the most important information a site makes available about their turbine concerns subsidies and incentives you can damn well bet that is all they have to offer.

    Didn't see anything at Paul's site, nor via Google search.

    I'd say that subsidies and incentives are THE driving force behind many renewable energy installations today, and nearly all of them probably involve proven technology.

    Marc
    · Share on Twitter
  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #16
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?

    The Helix turbine is mentioned in at least one article - it seems quite similar less the solar cells.

    İ beg to differ on the proven technology in regards to small wind turbines. There are some companies that have a good product but few. Most are shysters looking to make a buck. Commercial turbines - good stuff! That is totally different.

    The VAWT has yet to be successful anywhere that İ am aware of. İ thought this was an interesting technology until İ got to looking into it.

    An example of small turbines and the crazy claims. This is for the Wind Scorpion - The quote is from Paul Gipe - At 5 mph, the web site claims the Hornet will produce 640% of the power available in the wind; at 12 mph, 117%; at 22 mph, 49%; at 28 mph, 35%. The Hornet's performance at 22 mph and 28 mph would make it one of the most efficient small wind turbines ever built--even exceeding the aggressive performance advertised for the Air 403 of 31%. The Hornet's performance at 5 mph and 12 mph is clearly impossible according to our understanding of physical laws governing the power available in the wind.
    · Share on Twitter
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Bluenergy.com: hip or hype?
    russ wrote: »

    An example of small turbines and the crazy claims. This is for the Wind Scorpion - The quote is from Paul Gipe - At 5 mph, the web site claims the Hornet will produce 640% of the power available in the wind; at 12 mph, 117%; at 22 mph, 49%; at 28 mph, 35%. The Hornet's performance at 22 mph and 28 mph would make it one of the most efficient small wind turbines ever built--even exceeding the aggressive performance advertised for the Air 403 of 31%. The Hornet's performance at 5 mph and 12 mph is clearly impossible according to our understanding of physical laws governing the power available in the wind.

    I haven't run any numbers, but it looks to me like what the Hornet web content guy did was to take the wattage rating of the turbine as a constant and compare it to the calculated available power at different wind velocities. Clearly it's someone without a modicum of a clue.
    · Share on Twitter

Categories