Xantres XW SCC operation questions

VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭
Just installed an XW SCC in off-grid system. Firmware appears to V 1.4 -- something 4. Have BTS/RTS installed, etc Couple of questions:

1. the XW enters Asorb before either Asorb condition has been met -- 2% of set 20 Hour AH Capacity, OR Vasorb target met. Have very llight downstream loads on inverters, so not the function of large load change. The big X tech knows of no Bugs in Ver X.4 of the FW. Yes I know that there is V 5 avail, but have not bought the implanter device.

I have not found 'the' Asorb countdown timer, or the Aux output function when the CC enters Float, or perhaps on entering 'Asorb + Float' function. There are examples of other CCs with this function, surely I'm just missing them in the manual/menu ... I hope. Anyone found these in the XW ?

Wanted to switch out the MX-60 and test the Emissions of the MX vs the XW, and thought I'd like the convection cooling.

TIA Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.

Comments

  • jeffkrusejeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions

    I set my absorb time to max (480min). I thought I read somewhere that the absorb counter can start when still in the Bulk mode.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW SCC operation questions

    Hi Jeff,

    Thanks for the reply. Well, it appears that the CC says Asorb when it is not in Asorb (and it should NOT be in Asorb).

    Guess that no one uses the XW. AND, the Xantrex Forum has been shutdown.

    EDIT: Was only able to hold hands with the XW for two days B4 leaving the site. First day was in asorb when Comp Vbat was about 52 Volts, and Iout was about 28 Amps. Second day, was in Asorb at about 55 Vcomp. Thought there were a few folks here, using the XW, BUT they must be busy. My quick opinion on the XW is that it is a very Arrogant CC. It knows what is best for you (me), and there seems to be little feedback,/control over operation. Cannot find THE Asorb countdown timer, nor the Aux output that indicates that the CC is in Float. The manual is not very informative at all. X has resolved the hard to knock out of the knockouts. They are very easy. The installers must love the XW CC as there are very few parameters to set, and not a lotta pesky information available or displayed. Just my opinion after a couple of days of watching it.

    The MX, to me was a VERY MUCH BETTER CC, and it was designed 8-9 years ago.

    CANNOT WAIT FOR THE Midnite Classic
    Off to the remote site, without internet. TIA for any additional info. Will post more detailed info on what I find on the op of the XW. Thanks, Vic

    Thanks Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW SCC operation questions

    Update:

    Just returned from the remote site.

    The XW shows "Asorb" when it is still really in Bulk. It shows "Asorb" when the Compensated Vout reaches the FLOAT voltage.

    The big X states that ihis is intentional and proper, stating that it was INNOVATIVE. And when asked if this innovation could be turned off, and answer was NO.

    A different Tech person at X said that this "feature" was intentional, but was unable to recall the good reason for the incorrect reporting of the charge mode.

    Had hoped that the XW SCC would a solution, but appears to bring with it more issues than expected. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions

    People who don't have an MX60 don't know what they're missing! :D
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions
    People who don't have an MX60 don't know what they're missing! :D


    Like service calls, explaining why there is not power output when sweeping, the incessant clicking, relay failure, fan failure. And too many geeky tweakies. :D

    The XW charge algorithm allows you to set the first hour of absorb to a different and higher voltage from the rest of absorb. I was told it was for an industrial customer with AGM's. It got slightly modified in firmware 5. The first three firmware revisions were during beta and so only 2 versions are out there. Not bad for a fairly mature product 3 years out. Pretty hard not to like the Morningstar though right now. By the way, there are 2 XWCC's running 3KW in hot power sheds south of Tucson, coming up on their 3rd summer.

    I am curious why someone would buy the XW CC for Ham radio noise and complain about something as silly as how an internal charge program is being displayed. I will be happy to trade a spare MX60 for it!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions
    Like service calls, explaining why there is not power output when sweeping, the incessant clicking, relay failure, fan failure. And too many geeky tweakies. :D

    The XW charge algorithm allows you to set the first hour of absorb to a different and higher voltage from the rest of absorb. I was told it was for an industrial customer with AGM's. It got slightly modified in firmware 5. The first three firmware revisions were during beta and so only 2 versions are out there. Not bad for a fairly mature product 3 years out. Pretty hard not to like the Morningstar though right now. By the way, there are 2 XWCC's running 3KW in hot power sheds south of Tucson, coming up on their 3rd summer.

    I am curious why someone would buy the XW CC for Ham radio noise and complain about something as silly as how an internal charge program is being displayed. I will be happy to trade a spare MX60 for it!

    Never had a service call, never had a failure, don't know anyone with an MX who ever has. Just don't put it in the bedroom so the relay clicking doesn't keep you awake.
    And I specifically like all the geeky tweekies! That's the point of having an MX60! :p

    In the off-grid world, the MX60 is the best. :D
    Unless you are a ham operator. :cry:

    Yet another wrong answer from ...
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW SCC operation questions

    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for the post. Well, have NEVER heard of an MX relay failure, but am sure a few must have failed by now. RE the Geeky Tweekies, well one can just ignore them. My MXs will makea lotta power when sweeping, this seems to be a very small issue (to me at least).

    Just a couple of things on the XW. It seems too simplistic. It LACKS an Aux output option when the CC is in Float. Ideally, by now, a manufacturer would realize that one might want to be able to PROGRAM what part of Asorb this output would become active, such that one could begin to harvest XS PV energy during later part of Asorb, as well as all of Float, I did read the manual for the XW six or so months ago, and missed the fact that the XW was missing this important Aux function. This is my mistake.

    I am a bit overly sensitive about XW faults, as the moment it arrived it was obvious that the FW was down-rev (and needs a $150 Dongle to implant new Firmware), then found the missing Aux function -- MY ERROR (what MFG in its right mind would omit this important funciton after others demonstrated its importance ?), . . .

    AND, the BUG in the Firmware which causes the XW SCC to report that it is 'already' in Asorb, when it is really STILL IN BULK. Remember, the XW states it is in Asorb when it reaches the set FLOAT Voltage. This shows that the XW SCC does not really know what mode it is in. Weather is is in Bulk, or Asorb is very important. And this took too much time playing around with it to discover this flaw (a FEATURE to Xantrex !) ... I have yet to do an MX-60 vs XW CC Noise test. It is a bit surprising to me that the Pros have not noted this BUG in the XW Firmware. For those of us who pay attention to our batteries/power system daily, the mode of the CC is an important fact. A CC that misreports important information llike this, is very suspect to me. What else is it confused about ?? And so on ... 72, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantrex XW SCC operation questions
    Vic wrote: »
    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for the post. Well, have NEVER heard of an MX relay failure, but am sure a few must have failed by now. RE the Geeky Tweekies, well one can just ignore them. My MXs will makea lotta power when sweeping, this seems to be a very small issue (to me at least).

    In the MX60/MF and hopefully all other controllers with relays in them, (reverse polarity protection is one big reason for a relay at all), they are operated so that there is no current going through the contacts when they are switched on or off....
    Usually this is the case. I have seen only one or two times when a relay fried and that was caused from some special FET blow up issue where things were uncontrolled. Even then, there are big capacitors in the circuit that tends to act as a "Snubber" for any serious arcing which should help.

    The relays seem to have a long life so far as I've seen, and I've seen a lot of units.

    boB
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions

    Not any relays in the morningstar. You know, I really could care less about how all this stuff works. I like simple buillit proof gear that I do not have to explain to anyone. Like the old C40's and C60's that just keep working. I would like a customer to just walk up to the equipment and see that all the vitals are working without pushing a button. I have alot of female customers and that is not meant in sexist way.

    I really liked the MX-60 being the first one to let me design with long wiring to the array. The MPPT is fine but the buck converter is what made it for me. Everyone has different requirments.

    No one but Mr Vic could have had the luck to get an old revision of the firmware after asking questions about it for 2 years. I use the Aux to power my Dongle by the way in systems that do not have the XW inverter so I think your problem is either you or your equipment. Why in the world did you not buy the Morningstar MPPT? I did offer you an update of the firmware and a drive up to Yosemite for 3 hours is really not the worst place in the world to have to go. The offer still stands amigo!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions

    Dave, did you dump your XWCC and go with the MS unit instead ?

    boB
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions

    I have to add that my XW's relay clicks more than the MX60 ever thought of. That said if you are willing to give up 10% the XW works solid as a rock. But it just does not perform like the MX did.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions
    boB wrote: »
    Dave, did you dump your XWCC and go with the MS unit instead ?

    boB

    Yes for some clients and myself. I just added another array for the Mstar. I still use the XW at home. I do like the scroll feature on the XWCC. A female client or her less able SO can read me the vitals without pushing a button.
    Float time that the system went out of absorb, KWH and AH production, input, output, AUX condition, and something else. For the right person... it is all I could want.

    The system never makes relay clicks except at sunrise and sunset so if your is doing this, it is not normal Halfcrazy.

    I am doing a high voltage Sanyo array pretty soon and hope to use your latest Mr boB. I am hoping that I can get the above data, reasonably easy, can I? I was going to use another brands Hi Voltage CC but that got put off 6 months due to a recent acquisition...
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Xantres XW SCC operation questions

    Couple of things for Dave,

    1. The questions that I WAS asking about the XW SCC regarded weather is was really FCC Class B compliant. There was someone here that was making the large deal that the XW CC was the greatest and the it was Class B and so on, BUT the XW data sheet did not mention that "fact". So I did ask that question, and it turned out that the XW SCC"missed the class B emissions limits", and was NOT a Class B device at that time. So, I DID question X about how to make certain that one was ordering an accepted Class B device, and not the earlier model.

    2. Thanks for the offer on the FW implant.

    3.The realy is a very good solution in shutting off the input to the CC ... very absolute, and less subject damage by over-voltage and transients.

    4. Yes the funny error in the XW SCC reporting that it is in Abs when it really appears to still be (correctly) in Bulk is an equipment problem -- within the XW SCC. It even states it in the manual on page 1-4, "Bulk Stage ... When the battery voltage reaches the Float voltage setting, the controller will transition to the absorption stage. " ... I thought this was a typo and forgot all about it when reading the manual 6 months ago. The manual continues, stating that in the abs stage, " the XW SCC continues to deliver its maximum available current output until the battery voltage reaches the absorption voltage setting."

    So it IS simply an error in reporting the correct charge mode (in my very humble opinion). I missed all of this in the manual, because I thought that I knew the charge stages as defined by battery manufacturers and blew right past it.

    I cannot wait for the Midnite CC. Expect it to ADVANCE the state of the art, from folks who live, eat and breathe alternative energy devices of all kinds.

    The big X, in an e-mail from tech wanted to know just WHAT other CC's have the missing "Float Aux output", so they do seem very attentive to what others are doing, and the needs of their customers. Am done, 72, Thanks for the BW Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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