MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert

I am installing an off-grid system nearby and selected the MidNite Solar Classic 200 for charge control. The charge controller was the last item to be received for the system on Monday, February 21. We hung it that day, wired it on Friday, February 25, and turned it on late on Saturday, February 26. I observed its operation for most of the day on Sunday.

Here is a brief description of the system:

PV: 20-Sharp NU-U240F1 (4800 Wp: 5 strings of 4 modules for 120.4 Vmp @ 39.9 Amp)
CC: MidNite Solar Classic 200
Batteries: 8-SunXtender PVX-405HT (405 Ah @ 48V)
Inverter: Schneider XW6048
Generator: Honda EU6500i converted for propane use

So far, we have only connected one string of PV (120.4 Vmp @ 7.98 Amp) since the house is not yet completed and the loads are quite minimal. Additionally, I am trying to be gentle with the batteries until I develop some trust for the charge controller and can get them all to an equivalent state of charge.

Here are my current impressions of the Classic 200:

Reasons for selection of the Classic 200:
- Original plan was for Xantrex XW MPPT 80 600, but that was changed after the XW GT string inverters were recalled for blowing their covers off. Apparently the new CC is based on the same front-end design as the GT inverters.
- Subsequently I learned about the Classic series from this forum.
- Classic provided the ability to meet the needs of this array in either 5 strings of 4 (200) or 4 strings of 5 (250).
- Fast MPPT sweep (20 msec?) capability means that this CC has the *potential* to be able to frequently monitor the charging conditions to both maximize energy harvest *and* provide a high degree of accurate battery charge control. (My impression is that charge controllers in the past excelled at one of the other, but not both. Some excelled at neither!)
- Includes extensive and high-resolution monitoring. (Hopefully it is also high-accuracy.)
- It is a new product which is under current development, so hopefully it will be supported for some time to come.
- I believe this was designed by some of the same team members who have previously designed power electronic equipment at Heart/Trace/Xantrex/Outback, but perhaps I'm mistaken here.

Overall Impressions:
- The unit came well-packaged.
- The hardware appears to be solid and well-thought-out.
- I like all of the connectivity, capability and flexibility of this unit.
- Like the Outback Flexmax 80 charge controller before it, the designers have apparently subordinated the charge control function below that of the energy harvest function. I am hopeful this will be corrected in firmware soon, as I believe this may be the first design on the market which is capable of doing both jobs equally well. For the current installation which includes AGM batteries, I need to have effective charge control in place.

Pros of the Classic 200:
- Higher input voltage capability than most charge controllers makes connection of a large array simpler.
- Addition of the battery voltage to the maximum VOC that can be tolerated is a nice plus.
- Setup Wizard is nice, ensuring that all important settings get seen/reviewed/adjusted.
- Easy to get up and running.
- Maximizes array production. Seems to find maximum power point quickly and easily.
- Efficiency seems high at the low power levels I was testing. At about 600W out, I calculated an efficiency of 98.8%!! (Is that right?)
- Front-panel monitor is pretty comprehensive. (Though array parameters are voltage and power while battery parameters are voltage and charge current. I know there is limited display space, but I would like to additionally see array current, battery power and controller efficiency so that I don't have to always use my calculator to determine these things.)

Cons of the Classic 200 (in order of severity IMO):
- Absorb mode is based on time, but cannot hold itself in absorb. This seems to be a serious flaw in the system that needs immediate attention. Since the charge controller knows a lot of details about the battery, my strong preference would be to have it drop out of absorb when the absorption current drops below a certain C level. But given that it is based on absorption time, then this option should at least work. Currently what happens once the absorption voltage is reached is the controller will switch between bulk and absorb every couple of seconds. (Could this problem have been caused because I had AM and PM wrong on the clock at the time? If so, that's a pretty severe penalty for a common clock mistake! I have since corrected that.) Given that it stayed at the absorb voltage for over three hours yesterday when I had programmed it for 120 minutes I will conclude that every switch back to bulk resets the accumulated absorption time. To work around this problem, I have set the absorb time to 0 min, effectively changing this to a 2-stage charger.
- Given the above, I have gone looking for a firmware update. But while the manual gives instructions on how to update the firmware in the Classic, it does not tell you how to determine which firmware is currently installed nor where to get new firmware. (I even found a YouTube video showing how to update the firmware.) I have searched the menu, the manual and the MidNite Solar website multiple times, but I do not find any of this information. I signed up for the MidNite Solar forum in January, but since I am regarded as a robot for not posting immediately, I am restricted from viewing most of the content. As a paying customer, I would expect the firmware information and updates to be readily available to me, but it is not.
- The battery sensor has very thin adhesive on it and it became unstuck from the battery within 24 hours of application to a clean, new battery. This makes any concerns about accurate charge control much more severe. We are currently working on a mechanical workaround to this issue. Perhaps MidNite could design and provide a temperature sensor which could accept an included long cable tie to firmly attach it to a battery.
- The fan makes a very loud buzzing noise when it is running. I have no idea what this sound is. I suppose it could be something rubbing against the fan, but since I did not see a fan when I had the covers off, I don't know. Very annoying!
- The included manual was on a CD. This proved to be quite useless on the job site.
- Like every other charge controller I have ever wired, the space available to bend the cables and connect them is marginally sufficient. It is possible to wire it up and that is about it.
- I would prefer lugs that can accept wires larger than #4. It's good enough for NEC requirements, but not great if you want to make a long run to your array. One is forced to either adapt to a larger gauge (without room in the box) or put in a disconnect nearby.
- The wizard asks what units are preferred for temperature. I chose "F". While it did use "F" for asking me in the wizard what the lowest temperature would be, it displays operating temperatures in "C".
- The wizard asks for a location on a map. Very cool! But while subsequent passes through the wizard retained other information successfully, it seems to have relocated the controller from northern Virginia to southern North Carolina (over 300 miles away) without user intervention. (Yes, I did remove the tape blocking the battery in the display.)
- The "UP" button has a piece of metal protruding immediately above it, making it quite difficult to press the up button without first pressing the "ENTER" button. I had to turn my finger upside down to press it successfully. (I do NOT have particularly fat fingers, so I imagine this will be a bigger issue for those who do.)

Unfortunately, a couple of my batteries had gotten *very* close to their equalization voltage by the time I got back on Sunday to discover that the absorption time was being ignored. This is partially an issue with the batteries, since they are not all at exactly the same state-of-charge, even though they have eight consecutive serial numbers. Since there is no load other than the inverter in place currently, I will be using a two-stage (bulk-float) charge regime for now until the batteries can all achieve a full charge.

RegGuheert

SteveK

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

For firmware version go to "MNGP" menu, select "LCD", select "Version"

I'd rather the Absorb stage go to tail current too but never had the problem of the Classic ignoring the Absorb stage minutes setpoint.

There must be rubbing on your fan or a faulty fan itself. I can hear mine but just softly.

My location jumps on the GUI if I go back through the setup wizard too.

What is your idle current or Tare as someone else called it?

Thanks for your take!

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

SteveK wrote: »

For firmware version go to "MNGP" menu, select "LCD", select "Version"

Thanks! I see that option in the menu map on page 54 of the Valentine's Day version of the manual. Does that page give you all the firmware version numbers (I think the YouTube video indicated there were several different firmwares in the unit which could be updated, one of which was "MNGP".)?

BTW, I also see in the Menu Map that there are four different status menus. Do you know how to access them? I can't wait to see "MoonScope"!

SteveK wrote: »

I'd rather the Absorb stage go to tail current too but never had the problem of the Classic ignoring the Absorb stage minutes setpoint.

I'm wondering: Do you see it switching back and forth between "ABSORB" and "BULK"? If not, then I will assume I caused the problem by getting AM and PM backwards. Again, that would be a pretty severe penalty for a common clock mistake.

SteveK wrote: »

There must be rubbing on your fan or a faulty fan itself. I can hear mine but just softly.

Thanks for the information. I didn't figure they intended it to make this type of noise. For reference, it is loud enough that you can barely hear the slight buzzing from the adjacent XW6048 when the Classic fan is running.

SteveK wrote: »

My location jumps on the GUI if I go back through the setup wizard too.

So the question becomes whether it uses the correct location or not.

SteveK wrote: »

What is your idle current or Tare as someone else called it?

I didn't measure it, but I will in the future. For reference, what is yours?

How did you measure it? Is it provided by the unit somehow? If not, then I only really have two options: A shunt or to put my Fluke current meter in series. My shunt is a 500A unit, so it won't be great for measuring low currents. My Fluke meter has a 300 mA range and a 10A range. Any idea what the inrush current would be? I don't want to blow my fuses.

SteveK wrote: »

Thanks for your take!

You are welcome! Thanks for your help and feedback!

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert wrote: »

Does that page give you all the firmware version numbers (I think the YouTube video indicated there were several different firmwares in the unit which could be updated, one of which was "MNGP".)?

Just to answer my own question...No, that only appears to only give you the firmware version for the MNGP, though I could be wrong here. For the Classic 200 I installed it reads: Rev 11.10.10. There are also three other numbers there with slashes between them, but they appear to be serial numbers or something.

The YouTube video indicates there are FOUR different firmwares in the Classic that can be updated:

Right now there are four possible updates... Classic Main App, MNGP Main App, Network code for Classic and MNGP remote...

RegGuheert wrote: »

BTW, I also see in the Menu Map that there are four different status menus. Do you know how to access them? I can't wait to see "MoonScope"!

OK, to access additional screens from "Status" you can press the "RIGHT" arrow. This takes you to four total screens in a loop: The primary one, one with VOC etc., one entitled "Setup" and one with some dates, perhaps manufacture dates. The Classic 200 I reviewed indicates

Connected Battery: 48V
Classic 200
1/28/2011
MNGP
1/29/2011

Anyway, that should give an indication about when the unit I reviewed was built.

P.S. The above menu information was all relayed me by the owner, so there may be some errors in transcription.

boB

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert,

Would you please send an email to us regarding the Absorb/Bulk and other problems ? The Bulk/Absorb problem, so far, has only been a problem on 48V systems, and I'm not sure why we had not seen this before last week ? Well, actually, I did find out why, and I believe I have a good software fix for this, (done late last week), but want a couple of days testing before I let the new code loose.

On the MidNite forum, did you post to the introductions thread on the ? That must be done first in order to try and stop spam-bots. If you were somehow inadvertently banned, send email to the email address below and we will gladly reverse that. Our forum is probably going to be better suited for MidNite problems in particular, of course, that assumes you can post there.

Until we have a battery monitor for the Classic (on our modbus network), Absorb will have to be done in timed mode. It can be done from the Classic itself, but the Classic cannot distinguish between external loads and current going into the battery itself.

Sorry you had these problems with your brand new Classic !

Please send an email to customerservice AT midnitesolar DOT com and we will arrange fixes for you ASAP.

This goes for anybody that has these or other issues with their Classic.

boB

Solar Guppy

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert wrote: »

Reasons for selection of the Classic 200:
- Original plan was for Xantrex XW MPPT 80 600, but that was changed after the XW GT string inverters were recalled for blowing their covers off. Apparently the new CC is based on the same front-end design as the GT inverters.
RegGuheert

FYI,

The GT inverter recall is about a couple of caps in the balance of system box that for EMI suppression, these caps connect between L1, L2 to chassis ground. It has nothing to do with the power electronics in anyway.

Your reference is I assume to my post in which I GUESS what is in the new XW charger. I have never seen one or have had any conversations with Xantrex about the design. My comments were about what was discussed back in 2005 ... someone will have to take one apart to see what Xantrex did choose to implement for the new XW, regardless ... the current recall has nothing in common with the new charger in anyway.

SG

SteveK

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert,

You answered your own questions!....:cool:

I never saw my Classic switch from Absorb to Bulk. I have not stared at it full time except the first couple days either though (it's a beautiful thing to watch or I'm a very dull boy...heh). Must be the 48V thing boB mentioned above.

I didn't need to deal with any inrush current as I used make before break with my ammeter in series (all panels switched off). My battery monitor w/500A shunt was pretty darned close to the bench meter. Monitor read .25A bench meter read .22A.

The location thing I dunno... Doesn't seem to matter too much as it stands today either.

Thanks again!

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Thanks for the reply, boB! (BTW, that's about the creepiest avatar I have ever seen!!)

boB wrote: »

Would you please send an email to us regarding the Absorb/Bulk and other problems ? The Bulk/Absorb problem, so far, has only been a problem on 48V systems, and I'm not sure why we had not seen this before last week ? Well, actually, I did find out why, and I believe I have a good software fix for this, (done late last week), but want a couple of days testing before I let the new code loose.

Yes, I will send an email out today. It's good to know you have a handle on this.

boB wrote: »

On the MidNite forum, did you post to the introductions thread on the ? That must be done first in order to try and stop spam-bots. If you were somehow inadvertently banned, send email to the email address below and we will gladly reverse that. Our forum is probably going to be better suited for MidNite problems in particular, of course, that assumes you can post there.

No, I didn't post. Not because I didn't read it, but rather because I thought it was a strange requirement for a forum which is different from anything I've ever seen before. If your goal is to minimize participation in your forum, then rest assured you are accomplishing that goal. I doubt I am the only non-robot who has balked there. It's your website, do as you wish.

boB wrote: »

Until we have a battery monitor for the Classic (on our modbus network), Absorb will have to be done in timed mode. It can be done from the Classic itself, but the Classic cannot distinguish between external loads and current going into the battery itself.

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. If you come up with a solution in this area please let me know. I'd be interested in beta-testing it.

boB wrote: »

Sorry you had these problems with your brand new Classic !

Apology accepted, but not necessary! You guys have put together an impressive product! I knew this was all new when I bought it, but the owner is NOT in a hurry since the house is not completed, yet, so we have time to work out the kinks before it becomes important. Truly, your product is the BEST fit for this application.

FWIW, I posted here because I have found a dearth of reviews of your new product on the internet. I assume all your beta testers have a gag order and other reviews are locked up on your forum.

boB wrote: »

Please send an email to customerservice AT midnitesolar DOT com and we will arrange fixes for you ASAP.

This goes for anybody that has these or other issues with their Classic.

boB

Will do.

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Solar Guppy wrote: »

FYI,

The GT inverter recall is about a couple of caps in the balance of system box that for EMI suppression, these caps connect between L1, L2 to chassis ground. It has nothing to do with the power electronics in anyway.

Your reference is I assume to my post in which I GUESS what is in the new XW charger. I have never seen one or have had any conversations with Xantrex about the design. My comments were about what was discussed back in 2005 ... someone will have to take one apart to see what Xantrex did choose to implement for the new XW, regardless ... the current recall has nothing in common with the new charger in anyway.

SG

Thanks, Solar Guppy! I stand corrected. I was referring to some speculation here when the recall was announced. In any case, the homeowner did not like the idea of covers blowing off of solar equipment. Not only did they change manufacturers for the CC, they MOVED the entire installation of PV equipment from inside the house to a newly-constructed shed under the array! :roll:

SteveK

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Annnd, I think you will find a few status menus at the main status screen by pressing the right button. These should be labeled "Classic", "Classic 1" and "Clipper" if I recall correctly....

halfcrazy

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert wrote: »

No, I didn't post. Not because I didn't read it, but rather because I thought it was a strange requirement for a forum which is different from anything I've ever seen before. If your goal is to minimize participation in your forum, then rest assured you are accomplishing that goal.

RegGuheert

The forum thing you are referring to was my idea. I am the chief cook and bottle washer with spam on the forum and it is a lot of work alone. I made the category for new members hoping to keep the spam down and it has. The way I have it now requires you to make a post in the general category before you can view the other category's. The post does not even have to be in the new member area. You are not required to post anything personnel about yourself.

I would like to here from people if this is a problem? I truly want to encourage as many people as i can to join and participate. I was just spending 4-5 hours a day cleaning the darn forum and tried an idea I had. I am open to everyone's suggestions.

Ryan at midnitesolar dot com

boB

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

SteveK wrote: »

Annnd, I think you will find a few status menus at the main status screen by pressing the right button. These should be labeled "Classic", "Classic 1" and "Clipper" if I recall correctly....

Yes, pressing the UP and DOWN keys in main status should take you to different devices on the network. Right now, it selects between 2 Classics and a Clipper but the chances, at the moment, are very high that you only have one Classic on the network and NO clipper, as it is not ready yet. Also, that modbus address (10, 11, 12) are kind of stuck for only those 3 addresses as the multiple Classic network needs some more work in order to add more units. Luckily, that will only be a Simple Matter Of Programming, (SMOP). A second Classic can be changed to address 11 by installing left hand jumper, JP1. The method of doing this will change eventually. (soon I hope) to be automatic or programmable from the MNGP.

Press the RIGHT arrow key to see some more status as well as the moon scope (which is finished yet) and shows PV and Battery voltage. When in that screen, press up and down to speed up or slow down the scope sweep speed.

Press RIGHT once again and it will show you the code compile dates for the Classic and the MNGP.

More button press info later.

As far as the forum goes, there was WAY too many spam-bots posting. Although we have moderators, it's too much of a problem to be removing spam postings 24 hours a day. It needs to be automatic, and the short term solution at least is to have the new member post something (anything) to the introductions page thread. Hopefully this will change some time as soon as we can get as smart or smarter than the spammers themselves.

As for the weird avatar, I'm keeping an eye out for problems because I want to make sure they are minimal and that you are all happy !

boB

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

halfcrazy wrote: »

The way I have it now requires you to make a post in the general category before you can view the other category's. The post does not even have to be in the new member area. You are not required to post anything personnel about yourself.

Thanks for the clarification. By way of comparison, please have a look at what is written on your forum:

Ok do to large amounts of new members that are just here to spam I am trying an experiment members with 0 posts can only post in General Discussion and I am going to require that you post here as your first post within 24 hours of registration. I just ask that you introduce your self and give us a quick explanation of your interest in RE. If the spam problem persists we will be forced to require members be activated by a Moderator before posting.

Thank you for your Patience with this experiment
Ryan

This is quite different from what you wrote above. Since I did not introduce myself there within the first 24 hours I figured I was locked out. No big deal, since I can post here.

halfcrazy wrote: »

I would like to here from people if this is a problem? I truly want to encourage as many people as i can to join and participate. I was just spending 4-5 hours a day cleaning the darn forum and tried an idea I had. I am open to everyone's suggestions.

Ryan at midnitesolar dot com

I'm sorry, Ryan, but I am not a fan of your approach. As I said previously, I find it to be quite odd. Also, I can understand keeping ALL of the discussion of the Classic under wraps before the product shipped, but now that it is shipping, I feel that customers should be allowed to at least read the discussions without *any* access to your site, particularly if you are doling out application and support details there. (I certainly understand if you want to restrict access to information about future features or other trade secrets that you may consider competitive.)

Just my US$0.02,

Reg

SteveK

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

I thought it a bit different, the registration process at MN forum. Just accepted it as the MN way is all. It's not the first time they've surprised. If it works efficiently then I took it for what it is. The rules of the forum not unlike here. Beats needing to wait to be approved IMO...

Hey MN, as I understand it you have an email list going with firmware updates when they become available right?

SteveK

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Thanks boB!

Was wondering what the active "loading" type bar was for...

westbranch

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

halfcrazy wrote: »

I would like to here from people if this is a problem?

Ryan at midnitesolar dot com

ODD? maybe different, but not a problem...OK, just different and that is the spice of life!

It has kept a load of C**p off the site. Ryan, you get my vote.

halfcrazy

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification. By way of comparison, please have a look at what is written on your forum:This is quite different from what you wrote above. Since I did not introduce myself there within the first 24 hours I figured I was locked out. No big deal, since I can post here.I'm sorry, Ryan, but I am not a fan of your approach. As I said previously, I find it to be quite odd. Also, I can understand keeping ALL of the discussion of the Classic under wraps before the product shipped, but now that it is shipping, I feel that customers should be allowed to at least read the discussions without *any* access to your site, particularly if you are doling out application and support details there. (I certainly understand if you want to restrict access to information about future features or other trade secrets that you may consider competitive.)

Just my US$0.02,

Reg

Ok I have reverted back to full access for everyone so we will see how that works out. I apologize for offending anyone with my odd ideas there. We never intended to keep anything on the forum secret it was solely a spam stopping issue.

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

halfcrazy wrote: »

Ok I have reverted back to full access for everyone so we will see how that works out. I apologize for offending anyone with my odd ideas there. We never intended to keep anything on the forum secret it was solely a spam stopping issue.

Thanks! Now newcomers won't get the impression that you have a forum with practically nothing on it! I now have one post on your forum!

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Just a couple of quick updates:

MidNite delivered new firmware to me today to fix for the Absorb mode problem I reported on Monday. I have installed the new firmware but there was not enough sunlight left to get the batteries up to Absorb to test it. The homeowner will observe the behavior tomorrow and let me know how it goes.

I also ran into a serious issue today that will not affect most users. But if you happen to be charging an odd number of 6-V batteries with the Classic, you may want to read this post. This problem is NOT likely to affect the vast majority of Classic users.

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Here is a detailed update on status of these issues:

For reference, the firmware versions in the Classic when I first reviewed it were:
Classic 200: 1/28/2011
MNGP: 1/29/2011
The current firmware versions in the Classic are:
Classic 200: 3/1/2011
MNGP: 1/29/2011

New Pros:
- This controller is *very* flexible in allowing charging of *any* battery voltage between 12V to 72V. That has already come in handy!

New Cons:

The following two cons fall immediately after the first one in the original list in my estimation of severity.
- The Classic implements temperature-compensation limits as ABSOLUTE BATTERY VOLTAGES which OVERRIDE all other user settings for Absorb voltage, Float voltage and Temperature compensation slopes. The Classic Owner's Manual does not provide any information concerning the existence or operation of these limits. I have three issues with this approach: one is practical and two are philosophical.
On the practical side, this means that the user can set an absorb voltage for 14V but if there is a temperature sensor plugged in and the lower limit for temperature compensation is 70V, the charger will try to drive the charging voltage to 70V!! I know this because I have already had a few brand-new AGMs venting gas because of these limits which were previously unknown to me.
On the philosophical side, I feel that temperature compensation is inherently a DELTA in voltage and that if limits are put in place, they should only limit the AMOUNT OF DELTA that is applied instead of limiting the absolute voltage. In this way these limits CANNOT override the user settings for float and absorb voltage. Since this controller handles such a wide battery voltage range, I would expect the units for these limits to be in % or in V/cell. Units of V would suffice, but would not scale well over the entire range of output voltage.
Also on the philosophical side, the current user interface violates the principle of having ONLY ONE user input control to control any given function. As it is, there are multiple inputs that need to be changed and/or checked in order to adjust Absorb and Float voltages.
The good news in all this is that this problem is not likely to affect most users, since these temperature compensation limits are automatically set by the wizard and quickset functions when a user is charging a battery that is a multiple of 12V.
- On multiple occasions yesterday the Classic FAILED TO TURN OFF when the breaker connecting it to the batteries was switched off. I don't know what the safety requirements for this type of equipment are, but my strong preference would be for this unit to turn off *immediately* when the breaker to the battery is switched off.


Updates to original cons:

- Absorb problem: Midnite has provided new firmware for the Classic dated 1 Mar 2011 which is supposed to correct this issue. I successfully installed this update on 3 Mar 2011 and the homeowner will monitor today to see if this is working properly now. Midnite has also posted a message on their forum informing of the existence of this bug.
- Availability of firmware: While no firmware is posted on the MidNite site, yet, Ryan has opened up the forums to be read by everyone and there is a post there saying to contact him if you need new firmware.
- Temperature sensor adhesion problem: The temperature sensor continues to fall off the batteries every night. MidNite has informed me that they will ship foam tape for the temperature sensors with future Classics. I have provided the owners with a piece of foam tape to use the next time it falls off.
- Loud buzzing noise: I have not heard the loud fan noise the last few times I have visited the site. The concern about the CAT 5e cables possibly touching the fan were unfounded, as they were safely out of the way. In any case, whatever was making the noise is now gone. Perhaps a fan just needed to have its bearings settle in. We will see.
- Lack of a paper manual: MidNite has informed me that they are developing a quick-start guide which they plan to deliver with Classics in the future.

Reg

halfcrazy

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Reg I am sorry you are so unhappy with the Classic controller and will try my best to help you with it.

I will answer the one about the CC not turning off when the battery breaker is switched off. The issue here is common to all MPPT CC's that I know of and when they are making power from a DC source they are running off the source not the battery so the CC will continue to run when the battery breaker is switched off until the relay is opened.

Common practice would be to stop the flow of power into the CC before opening the battery breaker.

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

halfcrazy wrote: »

Reg I am sorry you are so unhappy with the Classic controller and will try my best to help you with it.

I'm not unhappy, though I will admit to being a little frustrated yesterday! I really do appreciate all the help you, boB and Robin have provided and continue to provide!

I hope that you will agree that most people looking to purchase a unit like this one would like to know these types of things BEFORE they spend their money.

halfcrazy wrote: »

I will answer the one about the CC not turning off when the battery breaker is switched off. The issue here is common to all MPPT CC's that I know of and when they are making power from a DC source they are running off the source not the battery so the CC will continue to run when the battery breaker is switched off until the relay is opened.

OK, thanks for the update on this! Can you please explain what relay you are discussing? I just spoke to the owner and he went into Menu->Mode and changed the Mode to "OFF". Then he went back to "Status" and it showed Mode is OFF. Isn't that how you are supposed to turn this off before switching off the battery breaker? If so, then there is a problem with the Classic, since the unit stayed on when he switched off the breaker even after doing this.

halfcrazy wrote: »

Common practice would be to stop the flow of power into the CC before opening the battery breaker.

How? By changing Mode to Off as above or by switching the PV breakers all off first? If you mean by changing Mode to Off, then that is what we have been doing.

OTOH, if you believe we should switch off the PV breakers first, then I will take some exception to that. Our PV breakers are nearby, but they are OUTSIDE the room where the charge controller is located. I took this approach because I had seen a story about a PV fire in which ALL the breakers were located in the same place and there was no way to switch off the PV which was feeding energy into the fire. In any case, I am using a MidNite Solar PV disconnect box, but it has screws holding the lid down. If I need to turn off the PV breakers each time I want to switch off the Classic, then that will be quite inconvenient!

In any case, I'm off to the site again today since what the owner just described still does not sound quite right. I will update later...

halfcrazy

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

RegGuheert wrote: »

I just spoke to the owner and he went into Menu->Mode and changed the Mode to "OFF". Then he went back to "Status" and it showed Mode is OFF. Isn't that how you are supposed to turn this off before switching off the battery breaker? If so, then there is a problem with the Classic, since the unit stayed on when he switched off the breaker even after doing this.How? By changing Mode to Off as above or by switching the PV breakers all off first? If you mean by changing Mode to Off, then that is what we have been doing.

This is not physically possible if the Classic is turned off in the Mode menu (Verified by MODE OFF on the home screen) then the unit will power down within a second or 2 of the battery breaker being opened.

The only possible way for the Classic to run with no battery power present to its terminal block and the mode off is for the internal relay to be faulty. In this case we need to get the unit back and repair it.

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

halfcrazy wrote: »

This is not physically possible if the Classic is turned off in the Mode menu (Verified by MODE OFF on the home screen) then the unit will power down within a second or 2 of the battery breaker being opened.

The only possible way for the Classic to run with no battery power present to its terminal block and the mode off is for the internal relay to be faulty. In this case we need to get the unit back and repair it.

The point here is that I don't think the relay clicked open. The Classic may have *thought* it was off, but perhaps it was really still on.

Let me see if I can come up with a procedure to reproduce this behavior reliably.

Vic

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Hi Reg,

Just a couple of things regarding your Classic 200 installation.

1. Regarding the RTS adhesive not sticking; It is probable that your battery has some surface contanimation -- perhaps Mold Release or something similar. You might try scrubbing the battery case at the spot you wish to install the sensor with soap, water and a bit of Sodium Bicarbonate, and rinse. Personally, I've not ever used the adhesive on the BTS/RTS, choosing to tape them down with Painter's tape, and then cover them with some one-inch Styrofoam (which has been hogged out to allow for the height of the sensors). The styro is then strapped to the battery case. The MN approach is quite standard in the industry, and MN has no real control over what may be on the surface of the battery case.

2. And, personally, I sure would want my PV In breaker to be very close to any Charge Controller, and right next to the Battery Breaker associated with that CC. Again seems to me that your personal preference on where you happen to place your breakers should not be an issue for MN to resolve.

3. The room in the wiring compartment of the Classic has much, much more room than does the Xantrex XW SCC, and the Classic can accommodate the largest wire size of any of the CCs I've seen -- #4 AWG, maximum.

Am not trying to pick your nit, Reg, but the Classic is a brand new product. There will always be issues for any manufacturer to resolve in any new product. These issues will always come up in the field, when the vast array of field variations get to be seen.

I am very happy to have my Classic 150. I will need the FW update. I knew, going in that there would be some bugs etc to resolve. We early users can help others who follow. I know that you also know this. I can be a bit circumspect on this, as I can fall back to the tried and true OB MX-60, as my present Vmp is only 106 VDC.

Good Luck, Vic

KeithWHare

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

halfcrazy wrote: »

RegGuheert
...

I would like to here from people if this is a problem? I truly want to encourage as many people as i can to join and participate. I was just spending 4-5 hours a day cleaning the darn forum and tried an idea I had. I am open to everyone's suggestions.

Ryan at midnitesolar dot com

I didn't have a problem with the restrictions on the Midnite Solar forum. Since Ryan reduced the restrictions, I have seen (and reported) a couple of spam messages.

Keith

halfcrazy

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

KeithWHare wrote: »

I didn't have a problem with the restrictions on the Midnite Solar forum. Since Ryan reduced the restrictions, I have seen (and reported) a couple of spam messages.

Keith

Yes we are being hit by spam but that is the price we pay. I figure it is better to give everyone access and they will also get to buy cheap Canadian drugs and what not at the same time.

Vic

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

BTW, I had no problem with the way it was originally set up, either, and would not have a prob with reversion back to the way it was.

Personally, think that I used one of my disposable e-mail addresses, notta a bad thing to have around.

Off to the mountains, Thanks Midnite, for the great support. Vic

keyturbocars

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

Unfortunately, the SPAMMERS cause trouble for everyone. I've already seen some SPAM pop up on the Midnite forum after the post requirements were taken away. I thought the requirements were reasonable. There's got to be a better way to deal with it rather than manually having to delete the messages.

SPAMMERS should be locked up (and fed a diet of greasy, salty SPAM with no water)!

niel

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

reguheert,
if you are having problems with any part of the classic, do not hesitate to continue to contact those at midnite solar to work out your difficulties. what you may encounter with your classic may not be what anybody else may encounter and all of the answers you look for may not lay here. when you find solutions it is very welcome for you to share this with all of us of course. even i encountered something odd and i took it to them even though my encounter was minor. i do not consider all troubles, even if only ones of exploration of the product and its uses, to be note worthy of everyone to consider before buying unless something major is uncovered because it is a new product and bound to have some quarks in its infancy. do not worry yourself too much as boB, robin, and the rest of the gang there have good past records with customers and will do right by you.

RegGuheert

Re: MidNite Solar Classic 200 Review

halfcrazy wrote: »

This is not physically possible if the Classic is turned off in the Mode menu (Verified by MODE OFF on the home screen) then the unit will power down within a second or 2 of the battery breaker being opened.

Sure it is. If the software or the hardware malfunctions, then it might think it has turned off but really hasn't. Here is a picture showing the Classic still running two hours after the battery breaker was turned off.
Mode was OFF at this time. I know it is hard to see the screen, but it was displaying Got Comms? at this time. In the picture, the breaker on the left is the one for the Classic and it is Off and the breaker on the right is for the XW6048 and it is On. (I DID try turning off the breaker to the XW, but, of course, that makes no difference to the Classic when its breaker is off.)

Also note that the Classic is reporting that there is currently 7.2A of current flowing into the battery. I assure you that there is NO current flowing from the Classic to the battery when the left breaker is off. Those numbers on the display had been frozen for the past two hours.

I had another picture with the Classic in the Mode menu showing it was OFF, but that picture is nowhere to be found. My camera got new firmware on Friday and it keeps crashing. :roll:

Anyway, I could switch the Mode back and forth between On and Off and nothing would change and the owner and I heard no relay sound. It is normally VERY easy to hear the relay click.

halfcrazy wrote: »

The only possible way for the Classic to run with no battery power present to its terminal block and the mode off is for the internal relay to be faulty. In this case we need to get the unit back and repair it.

No, I'm sure there are other ways. For instance, the CONTROL for the relay could be faulty. In fact the relay works fine after a reboot. In this case, I think the MNGP was still functioning, but the processor for the power stager was locked up. No way to tell if it was a hardware or a software problem, but I believe it was one of them.

This was the first case where I actually had to turn off the breaker to the PV panels in order to get the Classic to shut off. In all other instances I was able to eventually get it to go off by fiddling with the settings in the MNGP. Perhaps the new firmware is the difference here, but I do not know.