LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

JESSICAJESSICA Solar Expert Posts: 289 ✭✭
Greetings:

Everything else being equal, Wich one runs hotter, an LED lcd tv or a CFL lcd tv?

Thanks

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    actually you can't categorize differing methods quite that simply. you hadn't even mentioned plasma as most assume plasma is an energy hog, but i saw one with 3d, 600hz refresh, and at 42in that consumed under 100w as well as lcd types that are considerably smaller that are over 150w. it will vary considerably and one has to do their homework for it isn't easily narrowed down by category anymore.

    to be honest i haven't been up on the led types due to the prices involved and that i had already purchased my lcd tvs. i mentioned the plasma because a friend had bought one. it's out of my price league, but he got a deal on it due to the holiday sales and got the blue ray player and 3d glasses thrown in free and that certainly makes the tv cost much lower.

    also note that they aren't called cfl lcd tvs even though they have a backlight. just call them lcd tvs.
  • JESSICAJESSICA Solar Expert Posts: 289 ✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL
    niel wrote: »
    actually you can't categorize differing methods quite that simply. you hadn't even mentioned plasma as most assume plasma is an energy hog, but i saw one with 3d, 600hz refresh, and at 42in that consumed under 100w as well as lcd types that are considerably smaller that are over 150w..

    Niel:

    Thanks

    Nevertheless, I think my question was not understood. What I am trying to ask is this: Which one produces or irradiates more heat (literal heat), LEDs or CFLs?

    In addition: Can you tell us make and model of that plasma that consumes under 100 watts?

    P.S.: Again, I apologize for my insufficient English.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    do understand that the wattage consumed is a direct correlation to the heat produced and not the type of tv it is.

    as to the tv,
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889187179&cm_re=3d_plasma-_-89-187-179-_-Product
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,994 admin
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    Most appliances (except Air Conditioning which moves heat in/out of the home) all heat the home based on their Watts Used...

    Basically, think of the electric cord running into the home... All power goes in the electric cord and is dissipated inside the home as heat (light, sound, motion, etc., all other forms of energy degrade into heat--except if energy changes the state of something, like charging a battery, or exits the building (120 VAC in, XX watts out as an arc welder, electric motor inside, shaft running outside to turn a saw blade, etc.--The difference being the amount of heat left inside the home).

    So, the simplest would be to get a kill-a-watt type meter and measure the loads of different models.

    CFL/LCD actually, in general, consume the most power... Plasma and the old picture tube type consume less...

    Even the projection type TV's can also be on the lower side of power consumption.

    Part of the issue is the back-lighting levels (bright/dim) affect power usage, and for some TV's (LED/Plasma/Picture Tube) the brightness of the scene also matters too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    I recently got a 22" LED TV after having great luck with LED lap top. The TV draws 30 watts, per Kill-a-Watt. The lap top, average 14 watts, as I expected reduces consumption when the brightness is reduced. However I was shocked to see the TV maintain 30 watts, regardless of brightness level. Am assuming the LEDs are maintained at full brightness, and screen brightness is controlled by the LCD screen. What a waste of energy, what a shame to drive those LEDs at full power when full brightness is not needed.
    I realize some TVs back-light with LEDs, but many are edge lit instead, as is mine.
    Re the heat given off, I find just walking past them, I can feel the heat on my face from the screens, similar to the warmth of the sun, and usually the plasmas warm my face the most. However that probably has little to do with overall heat production, as some have heat pouring out the back, while others not nearly so much.
    Next time I go looking for a TV, I'll take along my Kill-A-Watt, and if they don't want me to use it, well they won't get my business.
    I was actually disappointed with the 30 watts, as I had a 13 year old Zeneth 20 inch CRT type and it only used 40 watts. Surely after 13 years, and with LEDs, power consumption should be far lower.
  • JESSICAJESSICA Solar Expert Posts: 289 ✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL
    BB. wrote: »

    CFL/LCD actually, in general, consume the most power... Plasma and the old picture tube type consume less...


    -Bill

    Bill:

    Are you sure this is correct?

    My old 32 inches Sony WEGA ( tube) draws around 156 watts, while a new 46 inches Sony EX 710 (LED) consumes around 117.

    Regarding the "heat" issue, the motive for my original question was this: My tv room is, for many different reasons, very hot, and thus I have to turn on my Sanyo AC too often. I thought that by getting a new tv (my sony is 13 years old anyway, and VERY bulky) that generates less heat I could be able to reduce room temp. a little bit.

    P.S.: Two of the reasons for the heat inside the room: The new Directv DVR box runs way too hot (and it draws nearly 60 watts too!); in addittion, I have a voltage regulator (APC LE 1200) that also generates lots of heat.

    Thanks to all of you for your answers
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    you may be surprised to know that old tv may not be as bad as you think if its the old crt screen type. put a killawatt meter on it to see what it actually draws. the newer tvs often will draw more, but their screens are huge in comparison so the current generation tvs are generally more efficient than their predecessors. this may mean that a tv change may not make much of a difference in the room heat.

    the directtv box is putting a great deal of heat out over a 24hr period and putting that on a switched power strip may help as you can shut it off when not watching or getting updates at a preset time.

    the regulator i can't comment too much on as i don't know why you have it and why it would put out much heat (is your power that bad?), but if the items connected to it are all off then i see no reason why this can't go off periodically as well. another possibility is to put the apc in another room and run an extension cord into the room that overheats. many may not go for this as it isn't a good idea to have extensions running around the house for safety reasons (i've been guilty of it at times too:cry:) and aesthetically it doesn't look good.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,994 admin
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    You really have to measure the energy usage for each TV/device based on how you set them up. The power usage is really all over the map.

    Also, the standby loads for older devices can be very significant vs the newer Energy Star rated products (may not be a heat issue, but can account for upwards of 1/2 the energy use over time with older electronics).

    It is difficult to generalize.

    Also, as Niel suggests, for the APC, placing it elsewhere and running its output to the room will help.

    For the most part, the wattage used by average appliances is pretty much equivalent to their heating output (i.e., the 60 watt DVR is a 60 watt heater). And DVR's/Sat Receivers use about as much power in "Standby" as turned on. Putting them on a power strip and shutting them down when not watching/recording can save a bunch of power (but take a few minutes to reboot/turn on).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    I thought plasma TVs were real energy hogs?
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    i thought so too russ, but again it can't easily be categorized by type anymore as one needs to investigate all types to know what's best as was proven to me seeing that 42in plasma being rated at 99w. this is about 20w more than mine runs at and mine is a 32in lcd.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    I've read recently that the plasma manufacturers have gotten serious about power consumption because of the bad name they had in that regard, and are now dong much better in that area. Time for the rest of them to do the same, especially the LED units should be able to do much better, especially when the brightness is reduced. For starters, dim the LEDs instead of driving them wide open and blocking the light with the LCD when we select a dimmer screen. Reminds me of where I once worked. In winter they turned up the electric heat to the max, then controlled the temperature with the AC and wondered why the power bill was so high. DUH!
  • vcallawayvcallaway Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    The Plasma my sister bought draws 600 watts!!! I thought something was wrong with the kill-o-watt.

    Our 27" tube TV only uses 50 watts.

    The Vizio LED TV's we bought for the motorhome are 22" and 19". They are around 30 watts when on A/C. I suspect it is less now that I have them connected directly to battery. The transformers ran pretty warm which means wasted energy. I probably should put a meter on and see what the DC load is.

    There seems to be a dramatic change in TV power needs once you get over 27". We tested quite a few at Costco. Everything 27" and under was pretty low, once you made the jump it went over 100 watts and up.

    I also should share this little story.

    In December we were taking advantage of the sales to replace the TV's and DVD player in the motorhome. We wanted low power consumption and 12v if at all possible. We walked into a Video Only store and asked if they carried Vizio. I was greeted with a tirade on why I don't want one. They obviously don't carry them.

    Ok, so I asked if they had any Blu-Ray players that ran on 12v or at least used a wall-wart type power supply. I was informed that there was no way you could power a Blu-Ray player on 12v. That the laser drew so much power on startup that like a laser printer you could not even run it on a UPS.

    Wife and I just looked at each other with a WTF is wrong with this guy look.

    We wound up buying the 22" TV at Costco ($180), the 19" at Target ($140) and the Blu-Ray from Wal-Mart($85). The Blu-Ray draws 20 watts max. The guy must use a really small UPS :roll:
  • JESSICAJESSICA Solar Expert Posts: 289 ✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    I recently saw this one:

    Sony KDL EX 40 600 (40"). It is a LED tv. 105 watts max. Can be adjusted down to around 80 watts.
  • jagecjagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL
    JESSICA wrote: »
    Bill:

    Are you sure this is correct?

    My old 32 inches Sony WEGA ( tube) draws around 156 watts, while a new 46 inches Sony EX 710 (LED) consumes around 117.

    Yeah, but that's LED.

    My 42" Panasonic (LCD with EEFL backlight) uses around 200 watts. Now that I'm looking it up, I do find quite a few plasmas of that size or bigger which use less. Mind you, most of the older ones use significantly more.
  • PhilSPhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL
    jagec wrote: »
    Yeah, but that's LED.

    My 42" Panasonic (LCD with EEFL backlight) uses around 200 watts. Now that I'm looking it up, I do find quite a few plasmas of that size or bigger which use less. Mind you, most of the older ones use significantly more.

    I bought a 42" Panasonic Viera LCD last summer (not LED backlighting) and Kill a Watt shows it consuming 80 watts. I do have the backlight turned down to a comfortable level.

    I haven't measured the heat tho, since that was the original question.

    Phil
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,994 admin
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    Basically, 80 watts into a TV = 80 watts of heat.

    154 lb human output, roughly, 65 watts.

    You do the math. ;)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PhilSPhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL
    PhilS wrote: »
    I haven't measured the heat tho, since that was the original question. Phil

    I used my infrared thermometer last night in an attempt to find part of the answer to the question.

    The room temp was 70 (up from 60 a couple of hours before. The TV had been on for that same two hours.

    Feeling around with my hand, the warmest part was on the top about 3/4 of the way across from the left. It measured 97F. Other random measurements all over the set varied from 74 to 81.

    Again, LCD Panasonic with CFL backlight (or whatever it's called, NOT LED which is what I was wanting but my friend owns the store and this is the best he had without going to plasma).

    Phil
  • DavidOHDavidOH Solar Expert Posts: 109 ✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    Great subject for discussion.
    The LED ( Light Emitting Diode ) -vrs- CCFl ( Cold Cathode Florescent Light )

    I ran across a few items in my search for a 12 volt computer monitor.
    This website lists a few: http://islandtimepc.com/12voltmonitors.html

    That got me searching for others.
    There are a number of TV's that look pretty good:
    Visio has several:
    At WalMart.com: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vizio-M220MV/15410929
    Power Consumption
    On Mode Power: 26W
    Standby Power: 0.6W
    Estimated Annual Energy Consumption: 51kWh*
    Estimated Annual Cost: $5.73**
    Also available at Sam's Club
    The same power supply fits several models: http://tinyurl.com/4cte86v


    I have been checking for 12 volt desktop monitors and I think I have found a winner.
    There are a LOT of choices but I've narrowed the criteria to several things:
    - Highly rated by others 4 stars or better,
    - Fast response time of 2ms, (Many more are available at 5ms)
    - 19 to 27 inch screen - 1920x1080 minimum (1080p High Definition)
    - Under 30 watts (the lower the better)
    - DC input without any modifications (no AC connection required)
    - Reasonable Price <$350 smaller monitors <$250

    Samsung has several LED lighted LCD monitors with (12volt) external power supplies. Highly rated and very competitive prices.
    Acer was DC input but I'm not sure of the voltage. Samsung was clearly marked on the monitor "DC 12V"

    Here are a couple choices:
    23" about 25 watts .3 watts on standby ~$290
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001414
    (or the BX2331 similar specs lower price)

    The Winner! : 21.5" ** 18 Watts ** .3 watts on standby ~$180
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001444

    available at Amazon.com for a couple bucks less with FREE shipping.
    Other contenders:
    Asus - ML248H - 24" - <30 watts - ~$210
    Acer - S273HLbmii - 27" - <22 watts - ~$350
    Acer - S234HLbmii - 24" - <17.2 watts - ~$250
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL
    DavidOH wrote: »
    Great subject for discussion.
    (or the BX2331 similar specs lower price)

    The Winner! : 21.5" ** 18 Watts ** .3 watts on standby ~$180
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001444

    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    DavidOH, were you able to find the range of input voltages for the winners? They would have to tolerate the hi voltage setting of your charge controller.

    If you were to draw '12v' power direct from your battery when the sun is shining and the CC is in action you could get ~ 15v due to temp compensation..
    I have an inverter that shuts down when in absorb mode on a cold day...

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • DavidOHDavidOH Solar Expert Posts: 109 ✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    Excellent point.
    Some of them listed an input range. My pick simply stated 12V
    Today I looked at a TV that had an input of 19v

    Each will be different.
    To be on the safe side I would suggest using a DC to DC inverter or isolate the battery so that whatever load you use gets a steady voltage.

    I'll have to check further on what would work best for me.
  • DavidOHDavidOH Solar Expert Posts: 109 ✭✭✭
    Re: LCD TVs: LEDs vs CFL

    I have found the replacement for the former winner, that is no longer in production

    SAMSUNG S22C150N Glossy Black 21.5" 5ms (GTG) Widescreen LED Backlight LCD Monitor 200 cd/m2 Mega Infinite DCR (700:1) NewEgg Price $120
    Model Brand SAMSUNG
    Model S22C150N
    Cabinet Color Glossy Black

    Display
    Screen Size 21.5"
    LED Backlight Yes
    Widescreen Yes

    Recommended Resolution 1920 x 1080
    Viewing Angle 90°(H) / 65°(V)
    Display Colors 16.7 Million
    Brightness 200 cd/m2
    Contrast Ratio Mega Infinite DCR (700:1)
    Response Time 5ms (GTG)

    Panel TN
    Connectivity
    Input Video Compatibility Analog RGB
    Connectors D-Sub
    D-Sub 1
    DVI No ( It should still have one! )
    HDMI No ( It should have this also! )
    DisplayPort No

    Power
    Complies with Energy Star 6.0
    Power Supply 100 - 240 VAC, 50/60Hz
    Power Consumption On: 18W (Typ) DPMS: 0.3W (Typ) Stand-By: 0.3W (Typ)

    Convenience
    Stand Adjustments Tilt
    VESA Compatible No ( I sure wish it was! )

    Features Eco Saving, Magic Upscale, Multi Screen S/W, Samsung MagicBright3, Off Timer, MagicTune, Image Size
    Package Contents S22C150N Install CD (Manual) Quick Setup Guide
    Dimensions
    20.15" x 15.15" x 7.75" with stand 20.15" x 12.24" x 2.08" without stand
    Weight
    6.82 lbs. with stand 5.94 lbs. without stand


    A few changes in this model, but still at 18 Watts. Most others are ~23-25 watts.
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