Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,625 admin
One of our posters here is having problems posting right now and asked for some quick help from forum members.

I will leave the requester anonymous for now--because I have not had a chance to ask if it is OK to post their name.

But if anyone has some suggestions--I am sure the help will be greatly appreciated:
I haven't been around for a bit. I finished the little camper, but never put the panels on it. They were to power fans to keep cool. It has turned out that I am severely sensitive to the pesticides & herbicides that are being sprayed almost everywhere. Also the cleaning & air freshener products being used in most stores, restaurants, etc. I can't go hardly anywhere. I can't work. I can't do much of anything. I can hardly walk. I can't do email very well.

...I need to find a place to live. I think the folks living off grid out where there are few people will be the best bet at finding a place. Hopefully I will be able to buy a little piece of property and build a little house.
It's only the pesticides & herbicides, not industrial so most of the places the "other" sensitive folks can go, I can't. I haven't tried any places down near you [San Mateo County Coast--Bill]. I've tried the ... Marin Headlands. Too much spray there. Also Berkeley Marina (wetlands) all beaches at Point Reyes, etc. The guy that you mentioned with the thread sounds hopeful [earlier poster with MS living in Snowflake Arizona--BB.]. Basically I need to get away from people. Most parks spray so almost all beaches. lots of the roads are sprayed. Most schools. I am also sensitive to cleaning products, but I can avoid those by not going in anywhere - stores, houses, restaurants, etc. bathrooms ;>
Sincerely,
-Bill
Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset

Comments

  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 983 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Maybe Quartzite, AZ ? One of the bigger, winter RV and camper's place to stay.

    boB
  • bryanlbryanl Solar Expert Posts: 175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly
    I am severely sensitive to the pesticides & herbicides that are being sprayed almost everywhere.
    The best place to suggest is perhaps a psychotherapist so he can get help finding a path back to reality.

    But that kind of suggestion would probably just aggravate the problem.

    be careful here as we don't want to judge or belittle. niel

    The fact is that no matter where you go or what you live in, there will be an environment that has 'pollutants' whether they be 'natural' or 'man made'.

    Everything is a trade-off and what suits any one individual is a matter of personal choice. - Ban DDT and suffer many deaths due to malaria; ban crop protections and suffer a lack of food; ban trees (hydrocarbon pollutants) and get desert; - The real world is rather short of absolutes.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,625 admin
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Bryan,

    I understand your points and will let them stand. I do not know the person personally (other than from posting in the forum) and that there is a large gray area for physical symptoms than can range from self induced to actual chemical sensitivities.

    Lets please not turn this into a discussion of those issues. I do not know the medical history/issues, and do not think it is something that should be discussed/speculated on an open board.

    Lets assume that the entire range of medical issues are being addressed elsewhere.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • toppertopper Solar Expert Posts: 113 ✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    I know of quite a few places up here in Canada that are Far from anyone.
    As far as severe allergies. We have 2 people local here that literally CAN NOT go anywhere without a breathing filtration mask. Freaked me out in the grocery store but these cases do exists.
  • paulstamserpaulstamser Solar Expert Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Northern Wisconsin is pretty darn pollution free. We do have long winters but that keeps the population low. Water is abundant and typically pristine and pure. Summers are long enough to grow your own food. Deer are abundant and need to be thinned out. Firewood is everywhere. Not much spraying of anything, but there is pine pollen, etc.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    actually anyplace that has farming is a bad idea for him to live near as those farms use pesticides quite extensively. i'm thinking remote areas in the desert southwest may be his best option.
  • bryanlbryanl Solar Expert Posts: 175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    re: "be careful here as we don't want to judge or belittle. niel"

    Also be careful that you don't read into something that which is not there. It is one thing to address a person and another to address specific behavior. I agree that judgments are inappropriate and that comments that address the individual are also inappropriate and I avoid doing so. In this case, a behavior phenomena is laid on the table. It is a psychosis. That needs appropriate and qualified assistance. If someone had said 'I have a friend who broke his arm, what shall he do' and I replied he ought to see a doctor, would you think I was judging or belittling?

    re: "Firewood is everywhere." -- this is an indication that there is a lot of pollution in the air as folks are burning firewood as a fuel source (not to mention the trees themselves). Many of these pollutants are similar to those to some classes of pesticides. (trees and plants defend themselves from insects, too).

    No matter where you go, there will be allergens. Often, the 'natural' allergens are much much worse than any 'man made' ones.

    Allergens are specific and not broad range to a class of disparate substances. If the problem is the former, it can be addressed by finding out the specific allergens and avoiding them in various ways. The latter, which is cited in the OP, is what we have here and it is an entirely different matter.

    The first step in solving a problem is making sure you know what it is.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Chemical sensitivity is a very real ailment. Only the ignorant dismiss it out-of-hand as being a purely psychological condition. Most of us have no idea just how much of these "toxins" we're surrounded by, because we do not react to them. If we can't see, smell, taste, or choke on contaminants we think we're living in a clean environment.

    We Canadians tend to think of our country as largely clean. This is not so. Some areas are just as polluted as any other developed nation. In the case of certain infamous tailings ponds even more so. But if you get far enough away from "civilization" it gets cleaner. We have repeatedly had the water tested at the lake and it has come up sparkling; in the 24 years we've had the place there has never been a sign of chemical contamination or even e-coli. Since the land has remained largely undisturbed as well and the air is well away from industry it is a relatively clean environment.

    Before making any such move, however, it would be important to know as specifically as possible just what agents one reacts to. Otherwise you're shooting in the dark and may move in to an area that has exactly what you're trying to avoid. It isn't an easy thing to determine either, as there is "cross-sensitivity" which crops up when one substance has "heightened" the immune response making otherwise "non-reactive" things trigger an attack.

    I know from whence I speak; not only is my wife sensitive to many common household chemicals (she can't go in to the laundry aisle at the store for the perfumes) but for many years she did medical transcriptions for a well-known allergist in Vancouver. You'd be amazed at the things people can react to. Including other people!

    It would be a good idea if we could all cut down on the amount of toxins we're exposed to. Recently the medical profession has announced that cancer seems to be an entirely "man-made" disease, and that the chemicals we've been using to "improve" our lives are very often the cause.

    EM fields, btw, didn't even show up on the radar as potentially harmful. :p
  • dreesdrees Solar Expert Posts: 481 ✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly
    EM fields, btw, didn't even show up on the radar as potentially harmful. :p
    Perhaps, but I have also heard of many people being sensitive to various EM fields that most people ignore as well.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,625 admin
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    All interesting and, yes, it is a very good idea to have a good profile of what may be causing the symptoms before moving into a new region and finding out they burn poison oak bushes in the fall...

    If people want to discuss the issues behind "mutli-spectrum/chemical" sensitivities and how conservation/avoidance/off-grid living may help (or not)--I would ask that those be discussed in another thread.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • hillbillyhillbilly Solar Expert Posts: 334 ✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    I might suggest looking up into the foothills in california, in general there are a lot more sparsely populated areas: less agriculture, less landscaping etc might mean better chances at dealing with a lot less herbicides and such. I know of one 10a parcel down the road that has been on the market for over a year...
    I do know that there is still spraying along the roadways, and one of our neighbors is a wee bit too fond of using roundup around the entryway to his property where he has done a little ornamental lawnspace. Probably can't totally get away from all of it, but for the most part it's just forest up here.
    The toughest thing in my mind would be how to build the house, as I would imagine many of the building materials available would contain some problem chemicals for someone as sensitive as him... though it certainly could be done, I imagine it would be difficult.
    I'd be happy to connect him with the info on the property if the foothills between Sac and Tahoe would be of interest. (kinda snowy right now)
  • DerikDerik Solar Expert Posts: 82 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Move to the desert, South Arizona, or even Southern CA deserts would be good no agriculture few people no bugs or spraying. Stay out of the mountains and areas with lots of trees and moisture.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,625 admin
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Another question that has come up is about Homesteading...

    What is the understanding today about Homesteading today in the US?
    No matter what you may have heard or read, there is no such thing as "free land from the government." There is no federal homesteading program and any public land the government does sell is sold only at fair market value.

    Under the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 (FLMPA), the federal government took over ownership of public lands and abolished all remaining traces of the often-amended Homestead Act of 1862.

    Or is it more of a back to the earth/simplfy your lifestyle movement?

    http://modernhomesteadingtoday.com/

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Well I suspect tax sales may be a way to acquire land at a very reasonable cost, the issues are that of course once you have the bid on a tax delinquency you have to wait long enough to actually apply for the deed to the property.

    Most sales advertised for a dollar (or some small amount) are scams, much like the hype of free solar living.

    There are exceptions of course, like depressed city areas that the Government wants off their books.
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    We are looking in Northern Vermont for some of the same reasons. Mostly dairy farming and organic vegetable farming. The question would be mold/mildew/moss tolerance as they are not chemicals per se but they are bad actors in the allergen department. There is much of these up there.
  • DagoRanchDagoRanch Registered Users Posts: 8
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Keeping on topic, I own 40 acres of raw land in N.E. Arizona. It's 13 miles N. of St Johns, AZ and another 13 miles East of Highway 191. It's in the middle of nowhere, yet close enough to a town to be somewhat practical. I have the Navajo Reservation to the north, and am on the border of land set aside for the Zuni Pueblo Nation for their every four year pilgrimage to Zuni heaven which is also located nearby. I'm up on a bluff that overlooks grazing land and my property is moderately wooded with Juniper and Pinion Pine at an elevation of 6,200 feet. My property is NOT for sale, just providing this as a resource. If the guy is interested he can send me a private message and I'll let him know who the developer is. There are still lot's available in the second phase of this project and there opening a new one in N.W. New Mexico as well.
  • hillbillyhillbilly Solar Expert Posts: 334 ✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly
    Derik wrote: »
    Move to the desert, South Arizona, or even Southern CA deserts would be good no agriculture few people no bugs or spraying. Stay out of the mountains and areas with lots of trees and moisture.

    I don't think that the OP had mentioned any allergy issues with moisture. I know that *some* people have various mold allergies (my wife does, and can't take tropical climates), but for the reasons listed by the OP I don't see any issues with living in a desert or forest.
    At any rate, the reason I'm posting is that there are now two properties up for sale in our little "sub devision" in the mountains. Real sad, this last one from a couple that lived up here for nearly 15 years before loosing the property; it's now bank owned and on the market. I don't know what happened, possibly health issues ... or some other financial hardship, but they had finished their house only a few years ago and now lost it.
    That particular property might not work for the OP as it is a manufactured home, and thus it may well be laden with various chemicals that he would have allergy issues (or perhaps not?). The other 10 acre parcel is still up for sale and the last I checked it was now going for something like 60,000 (I think that they were trying to sell for 130K two years ago).
  • bmetbmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    EM fields, btw, didn't even show up on the radar as potentially harmful. :p

    I saw the medical case study about two NYC Fire Chiefs that died from brain cancer, directly linked to long exposure to EM fields.

    and

    I personally know a family that lives in a 2nd story apartment with a high voltage wire running parallel to their north wall. Their are no insects in their trashy environment, where I have seen food left out on countertops for days. And according to the husband, hasn't had any libido since they've lived there. I asked the wife why they hadn't moved, and the answer was, that the rent was cheap.
  • SlappySlappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    and here is some places, that would be a NO-NO!
    http://content.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/smokestack/index
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    bryanl
    says:
    "Also be careful that you don't read into something that which is not there. It is one thing to address a person and another to address specific behavior. I agree that judgments are inappropriate and that comments that address the individual are also inappropriate and I avoid doing so. In this case, a behavior phenomena is laid on the table. It is a psychosis. That needs appropriate and qualified assistance. If someone had said 'I have a friend who broke his arm, what shall he do' and I replied he ought to see a doctor, would you think I was judging or belittling?"
    After being poisoned when I was young, I suffered from many different severe chemical sensitivities for years thereafter. Natural substances, pollen, cat dander, sawdust, etc, never bothered me. But even small amounts of certain chemicals would put me into a severe brain fog and condition of extreme mental fatigue. I would develop these symptoms whether I knew that I had been exposed or not. Burning plastics and petrochemicals were the worst for me. Also MTBE, methyl tertiary butyl ether, that used to be added to gasoline was especially toxic to me.
    Many times I was unknowingly exposed to these substances and symptoms developed. I would find out later where the source of exposure came from.
    To say that claiming to have a chemical sensitivity is a psychosis , is either insensitivity bordering on psychosis, or the guy is a psychotic chemical salesman, or someone who has other financial interests in herbicides and pesticides.
    Incidentally, there are many people that were staunch defenders of herbicides and pesticides who now have Parkinsons disease, because of their cavalier attitude towards handling the dangerous substances. That link is pretty well documented, and I know people personally that developed Parkinsons which was tied to pesticide esposure. Would you call all the scientists that have certified the link between herbicides and pesticides all psychotics?
    Internal nerve and organ damage is a listed side effect of these chemicals.
    That's psychotic too, huh?.
    I was able to overcome the most severe of my chemical sensitivities. And I did it by moving to the mountains of Colorado. It has taken years but I am much better now. So the person looking to move to a cleaner enviroment is on the right track.
    Liver and kidney toxicity is the underlying cause, and anything you can do to detoxify will help. A raw food diet of fruits and vegetables with fresh vegy juices is very helpfull. Of course you should use as much unsprayed produce as possible. Check out hallelujah acres -www.hacres.com/
    bryanl says:
    "Everything is a trade-off and what suits any one individual is a matter of personal choice. - Ban DDT and suffer many deaths due to malaria; ban crop protections and suffer a lack of food; ban trees (hydrocarbon pollutants) and get desert; - The real world is rather short of absolutes."

    When I suffered from my chemical sensitivities I never was bothered by trees.
    I have worked on organic farms and orchards and they all outproduced their chemically farmed neighbors. I worked on an organic apple orchard in Wa. state and it outproduced the chemical orchards in the area by 30%, and pulled in about 50% more income, cause he was able to export all over the world at a much higher price. This is the answer to our balance of trade deficits.
  • mr.radonmr.radon Solar Expert Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Poster Needs Help Finding an "Unpolluted" Place to Live--Quickly

    Talkeetna, AK
    have a cabin out there, about 20ml from town. need snowmobile, or plane w/ floats. just awesome except for mosquitoes....

    ;)
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