20 KW Chinese Turbines

System

I thought I would post this thread to add to the discussion of Chinese made turbines .

Point 1 - Do your research to find a company that has a contact that communicates well in written and verbal english ... also very handy with skype , MSN etc. There is a 15 hour difference and I usually communicate with my contact every night which is their day . ( This is key .. you want a answer immediately some days and getting before you start in the AM is fantastic)

Point 2 - Pick the right product for your wind area .... Low wind speed turbines basically mean .. yes it will start up sooner but definately has less control than the higher wind speed turbines.

Point 3 - Check if the factory is willing to make changes to your turbine wire , controller relays and switches prior to leaving the factory . I had to have all my turbines rewired , all switches and controlls changed to UL or CSA approved before it could even be inspected . Reduce cost by having it changed before it heads to the US or Canada.

Point 4 - After totally dismantling every part from the ground to the top of the turbine ... there is a common theme ... its not rocket science ... it is a simple setup and if you put enough safe guards in the system .. it can work flawlessly .

Point 5 - Are there many induvidual's out there that can assist you with these turbines ... yes and no ... everyone seems to flow back to SWG in some fashion ... the turbine is similar or the controller came from the same factory and every other company is using them . There are a few experts out there that have gone through all the issues ... you just have to learn form those mistakes and make improvements to your turbine as you go.

Point 6 - Do not assume connecting to the grid is easy ... from a Micro Generator to a Direct Generator the paper work can be lenghtly and I would recommennd a Electrical Engineer make all your diagrams and have them stamped . Also use a Engineered Stamped drawing for your tower and tower base . Less paper work .
Make sure the drawings even from a Engineer in China is rechecked and re stamped if neccessary ... Stick by the book .. less law suits this way .

Point 7 - It is not as cheap as one may think .. the turbine , tower etc, from a good chinese company is very well priced .. just remember that the other soft costs add up if not more that the cost of the equipment . If you choose to put enough safety into your turbine that your can walk away in a 100km wind and feel comfortable it will be there in the AM.

Summary ;

Sorry this is so lengthy .. I have spent 6 months redesigning and installing (2) 20KW wind turbines from Dayue Machinery & Renewable Energy a Chinese Company .

The turbines all had to be changed to CSA standards and they all passed . The 8 Aurora Inverters all have had issues with voltage and controll and all along the way my contacts from Dayue and others around the world have assisted into making these work the way they should .

My main comment is there are good products out there .. not all manufactures in china have great products but some that with the right knowledge on how to make them better will work fine .

Truth Squad

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

Point Number 8: Buy solar and avoid most of those major headaches and get a product that works right out of the box.

Sorry, but I've seen a few Chinese turbines up close. Saying they're junk is a disservice to junk because some junk has a use to someone.

You might say I'm jaded, but I know how these companies work from the inside. Think the Chinese are going to support your turbine ten years from now? Probably not. There are American companies that aren't supporting product they made ten years ago, so what makes you think the Chinese will? The point there is your turbine probably doesn't even approach paying for itself until a decade slides by. And did you know many, if not most, manufacturers in China don't even know (or care) what a certified weld is?

You said yourself you spent six months redesigning these Chinese wind gennies. So, what you just told us is they don't work right out of the box. In fact, you also said the inverters had problems. Yeah, they helped you with them this year. Go back to them even five years from now. Bet the number you call ends up being a happy meal toy manufacturer in Shanghai.

You don't, by chance, also sell these Chinese turbines, do you?

BB.

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

I am guessing that this is one of PCE's projects (to be fair, they appear to be cleaning up after the first installer's failures):

...But, the two 60-foot 20 kilowatt wind turbines installed on his quarter section of land on Range Road 74 and Highway 43 need to be running properly before he hits wind pay dirt. In 2009, the two devices were installed on his property. Because of various issues with the company which installed the windmills, Geherman had to hire a new company to get the job done properly.

In January 2010, Prairie Coast Equipment took over the project. Mark Porta, PCE alternative energy manager said the windmills were installed incorrectly and now Prairie Coast Equipment must pick up the pieces.

"We had to put the blades on the right way," said Porta. "They were on backward. The wiring was all-wrong, the wrong size. Nothing was CSA approved. All the paperwork was not done right."...

Any news in the last few weeks since the article was published?

-Bill

System2

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

I sell a lot of products ... from Enercon to Zephyr ... not saying that wind or solar by themselves are the only answer ... i think the hybrid option is the more long term solution .

Do these work right out of the box ... you know i think they would in Europe where CE and 50 HZ frequency is ok ... Not in the US or Canada .

The turbines are very simple ... I don't need them to be there in 5 years ... changing items to standard UL /CSA or cETLus make the parts off the shelf available ... I have no problem supporting these products ... Or other individual's that I have talked to overseas ... I have to assume that John Deere has been around for 170 years to this point and all product lines they take on they support to this day ... you improve as you go .... just keep enough spare parts ....

PrairieCoast Equipment is a John Deere dealer ... John Deere US has been in large wind for 5 years now ... Its time to get into the Alternative Energy markent and I will lead it from my end .

Are the products from china as good as products from Italy Japan , Germany .... You know as well as I do if the US and Canada came out with similar products the price would be 2 to 3 times higher for certain products .

Should we be developing our own products ... yes we should ... will we ... its not happening right now ... I think in the future we will .

I believe and I know most of my customers feel they would love to get into solar or wind if the price was affordable and there were companies that knew what they were doing and will be around for years to come ... we have some big steps left to take .

Chinese turbines are available and if you do your homework ... you can find a option that has less risks than the others that are out there .

Will you get a poor turbine ... its possible ... thats why you need a good warranty program .

Mark

Truth Squad

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

Mark, I've heard this all before, in another place. And, no, Chinese products are nowhere near the quality of German. The Chinese learned industrial manufacturing from the Soviets. Need I say more?

russ

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

And the Russians stole it from the Germans at the end of WWII.

Truth Squad

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

Or copied Lend-Lease stuff.

BilljustBill

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

Truth Squad wrote: »

Mark, I've heard this all before, in another place. And, no, Chinese products are nowhere near the quality of German. The Chinese learned industrial manufacturing from the Soviets. Need I say more?

Here is a vendor that is listed to be in Ft. Worth, Texas, but when I sent questions about driving over to pick up the 1KW generator and if state tax applied to the sale, after two contacts, they were actually in Virginia and shipped from there. ?????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260515381231&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Okay, so no tax would help offset the shipping cost, so next I asked for some long term data of this model and how it compares to others sold here in the USA, like Bergy, etc..... Never got an answer. So getting a quality turbine and trying to find a quality vendor even on small wind turbines is a double whammy....

One might as well build your own of this size output to supplement an off grid 2Kw solar array. Any ideas for other brands/vendors or success with DIY plans?

Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

BilljustBill wrote: »

One might as well build your own of this size output to supplement an off grid 2Kw solar array. Any ideas for other brands/vendors or success with DIY plans?

Bill

http://www.otherpower.com/turbineplans.shtml

BilljustBill

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

Cariboocoot wrote: »

http://www.otherpower.com/turbineplans.shtml

Thanks, Coot.

Bill

russ

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

Good wind resources:

1) www.homepower.com two articles they have posted are very useful a) how to buy a wind generator and b) Apples & Oranges

2) http://www.wind-works.org/SmallTurbines/CalculatedYieldofSmallWindTurbinesatZeelandTestSite.html

3) www.wind-works.org this is Paul Gipe's site

4) for DIY http://www.scoraigwind.com/ Hugh Piggott's site

5) http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/pdfs/small_wind/small_wind_guide.pdf

Truth Squad

Re: 20 KW Chinese Turbines

Never, ever buy a wind turbine off eBay. You think the guy on there will stand behind it? I heard from people who bought old Air 303s off eBay---they were advertised as Air-X turbines. When they went to get parts for the 303, guess what? Nothing compatable with Air-X. I don't advise small wind to anyone. But if you absolutely must buy one, find a reputable dealer. Dealers who've been around a few years and know the business. Like the one who hosts this site, for example.

Buying a Chinese turbine off eBay is just asking for a ripoff. I know of a certain American purveyor of Chinese wind turbines who got into some lawsuit trouble with customers who got failed turbines this person would not stand behind. This individual likes to sell on eBay.

I also know of some eBay sellers of a certain big brand name turbine who started selling on eBay and had zero experience in the business. Didn't stock anything, so if you bought a turbine from this person, you'd better hope the factory has some or you'll have a bit of a wait. Just promise the world to anyone to make the sale. That's the problem with eBay---anyone can be a "business" with absolutely no training, knowledge, or experience. And no need to actually stock merchandise. If manufacturers had any sense, they wouldn't let their dealers have to compete with eBay, because the eBayers don't have overhead to pay for. They're not paying for a storefront, merchandise on shelves, employees, and other expenses. They just take the money, send an order to the factory, and they're done with it. Zero after-the-sale service. That's how they undercut the storefront dealers.