Blue Board vs fumes

matchstcmatchstc Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
How does bare blue board (insulating board) stand up to being a battery compartments walls?

will the fumes eat it alive or does it have some longevity.?

Disassembling my old battery box and what a toxic mess of fumes, stains, wrong wore used for cables and insulation falling apart you name it. Boy they really mean it when they call that first set of batteries a learning set


mike
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  • n3qikn3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #2
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    Even is it did stand up to the fumes, it is very flammable. Look in the Home Depot/Lowes for the white fiberglass board.
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  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,140 admin
    #3
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    Here is one thread were I posted the acid resistance of various materials. Scroll down a couple posts.
    I would start by identifying the type of plastic (perhaps, the recycle symbol with the number inside--typically 1-7).
    Let’s start with #1 PET which stands for Polyethylene terephthalate. Soda bottles as well as some beer and liquor bottles are made from PET along with a variety of other food bottles and trays. PET can be melted and drawn out into long fibers and recycled into carpets, fiberfill for jackets, and fabric for T-shirts and shopping bags which unfortunately cannot be recycled. Manufacturers want recycled PET and buy it. Coca Cola has finally started using a measly 3 percent recycled PET in their bottles. Be aware that local recyclers only accept narrow-neck PET bottles. I have surmised over the years that used PET food containers with sticky food scraps contaminate the recycling machines.

    Milk and water jugs are made from number #2 HDPE or high-density polyethylene. Clear HDPE could easily be made into new containers. The colored HDPE (liquid detergent, and shampoo bottles) is generally recycled in plastic lumber. Those tough Tyvek mailing envelopes and white contamination suits are also a form of HDPE and are impossible to recycle.

    Vinyl or polyvinyl chloride (# 3 V) could be recycled. It is used for clear food packaging and plumbing pipe. However, collecting it for recycling is cost-prohibitive because there are not enough items made from the material to warrant local factories to recycle it into new products. They are generally used once and tossed.

    Low-density polyethylene (# 4 LDPE) is very flexible and made into bags for bread, frozen food, and grocery. Some of these bags are recycled into new bags or plastic lumber such as Trex. This plastic is lightweight and trucking it back for recycling uses more energy than producing a virgin product. Unless there is a recycling factory close by, most LDPE ends up in the landfill. Consider using cloth shopping bags. My husband and I have used the same bags for over eleven years.

    Polypropylene (# 5 PP) is made into yogurt, margarine, and other food containers. Like number 3 V, there are not enough containers made from PP to justify collecting it and shipping it to a recycling factory. In places where big industries use PP, there is enough volume for it to be sold for recycling.

    Then there’s #6 PS - Polystyrene, the plastic that I would ban from the face of the earth. Solid PS is made into compact disc jackets, eating utensils, and take-out food containers. The expanded PS know as Styrofoam is used for packing materials, coffee cups, meat trays, and egg cartons. The cost of moving used Styrofoam is higher than making it from virgin oil. Jax Place reported, “Foam recycling is a scam to make you feel OK about buying it. Don’t buy it; PS is buried in landfills.” Styrofoam is always found in our local creeks and rivers where birds and fish think it is food clogging up their digestive tracks thus ending their lives.

    The last of the labeled plastics is #7 OTHER. I echo Mr. Place’s voice, “Don’t buy this stuff unless you want to keep it. It can’t be sold or recycled.” Catsup bottles have wavered between PET and OTHER over the last few years. Lids and imported containers are likely to be made from mixed resins known as OTHER.
    Then use a Chemical Resistance Data Base like this one.

    For the 10-75% concentrations of Sulfuric Acid, I got:
    [FONT=Fixedsys]     Sulfuric Acid (10-75%)

Material         Compatibility
Carbon graphite  A-Excellent
Carpenter 20     A-Excellent
Ceramic Al203    A-Excellent
ChemRaz (FFKM)   A-Excellent
CPVC             A-Excellent
Epoxy            A-Excellent
Fluorocarbon (FKM)  A-Excellent
Kalrez           A-Excellent
Kel-Fr           A-Excellent
LDPE             A-Excellent
NORYLr           A-Excellent
Polypropylene    A-Excellent
PPS (Ryton®)     A-Excellent
PTFE             A-Excellent
PVC              A-Excellent
PVDF (Kynar®)    A-Excellent
Vitonr           A-Excellent
ABS plastic      B-Good
Bronze           B-Good
Buna N (Nitrile) B-Good
EPDM             B-Good
Hastelloy-Cr     B-Good
Hypalonr         B-Good
Neoprene         B-Good
Polycarbonate    B-Good
Natural rubber   C-Fair
304 stainless steel   D-Severe Effect
316 stainless steel   D-Severe Effect
Acetal (Delrinr)      D-Severe Effect
Aluminum         D-Severe Effect
Carbon Steel     D-Severe Effect
Cast iron        D-Severe Effect
Nylon            D-Severe Effect
Polyetherether Ketone (PEEK)     D-Severe Effect
Polyurethane     D-Severe Effect
Silicone         D-Severe Effect
Titanium         D-Severe Effect

Ratings -- Chemical Effect
A = Excellent.
B = Good -- Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration.
C = Fair -- Moderate Effect, not recommended for continuous 
            use. Softening, loss of strength,swelling may occur.
D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.[/FONT]
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • matchstcmatchstc Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #4
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    thanks for your serious help!

    mike
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  • matchstcmatchstc Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #5
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    based on your sulfuric acid chart...what do we use for nuts and bolts? I had though stainless steel hardware would be good but apparently not or is there another grade?

    mike
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  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    I don't know how big your battery enclosure is, but I have 4 T-105s (Used to be 6 l-16's) in a under the counter (vented) compartment that has pink styro-foam (same as blue essentially) and it is fine, fire resistance not with standing. The insulating board keeps the battery temp fairly constant, and insulates the sound of the fan, so I almost don't hear it.

    Tony
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  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,140 admin
    #7
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    Looks like silicon bronze bolts, nuts, and washers is the best "common" material for battery terminals. Concord AGM batteries use silicon bronze hardware.
    Standard Terminals: All "T" batteries now incorporate copper alloy M8 terminals except the PVX-340T & PVX-420T which are M6. All batteries supplied with silicon bronze bolts, nuts, and washers as required for installation. No exposed lead terminals. This change was made to improve environmental safety and health.

    From what I have read--it looks like Brass is not a good choice. Brass is typically Copper+Zinc and the Zinc can be leached/etched out of the hardware by the acid.

    Also, another reason for keeping batteries clean and use some form of coating/passivating paste on the battery terminals to keep the acid away from the electrical connections.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • matchstcmatchstc Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #8
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    Or do both


    Silicon Brass hardware ain't expensive or hard to find. ANything I cann do to minimize the creeping green goop growth is good!

    I had one nut I had to remove with vise grips it was 50% eaten away.

    Now again these were very old , very cheap t105 so I may be overreacting a bit:)

    mike

    BB. wrote: »
    Looks like silicon bronze bolts, nuts, and washers is the best "common" material for battery terminals. Concord AGM batteries use silicon bronze hardware.



    From what I have read--it looks like Brass is not a good choice. Brass is typically Copper+Zinc and the Zinc can be leached/etched out of the hardware by the acid.

    Also, another reason for keeping batteries clean and use some form of coating/passivating paste on the battery terminals to keep the acid away from the electrical connections.

    -Bill
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  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    Battery terminal spray or grease works pretty well to keep terminals and cable ends clean in my experience. I have also used felt pads under automotive clamps with some good effect.

    Tony
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  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes
    icarus wrote: »
    Battery terminal spray or grease works pretty well to keep terminals and cable ends clean in my experience. I have also used felt pads under automotive clamps with some good effect.

    Tony

    Almost any grease. Even Vasoline. Felt pads should be oiled.

    I'd be concerned about why you're getting all this corrosion. Too high charge rate? Bad ventilation? Salt-water or very humid atmosphere? It just shouldn't be happening even with ordinary steel bolts. Sounds like the acid is actually bubbling up out of the cells and getting all over the top of the batteries.

    Mine are insulated with polyurethane foam panels. Vented, remote temp sensor for the charge controller. Nothing special about the connectors and no corrosion anywhere.
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  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    I have to agree with ..coot,

    My plywood battery box is lined with white Styro insulation, fastened using ring-shank nails through zinc plated fender washers (for the lid), and just glued to the sides elsewhere.

    Surrette supplied SS bolts, nuts and locks for attachment of the battery cables. Used Vasoline on the Flag terminals. There are two screened 4-inch inlet vents, low, at the far end of the box, and 4X12 inch outlet at top of the other end of the box. There has been NO noticeable corrosion or deterioration of any of these components over 5.5 years of service.

    I do wash the battery tops with a dilute solution of Sodium bicarbonate, followed by a DI water rinse to keep things more sanitary.

    Of course, YMMV Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • matchstcmatchstc Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #12
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    I think my problem is very old well used batteries before I ever got them then riding them hard myself...not to mention the high humidity.

    mike
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  • rplarryrplarry Solar Expert Posts: 203 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes

    A simple switch to AGM batteries will end your corrosion problems
    Larry
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  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Blue Board vs fumes
    rplarry wrote: »
    A simple switch to AGM batteries will end your corrosion problems
    Larry

    This is true! The cost is coming down to where you can get now get about 1/2 the cycles for twice the price. They are getting cheaper but tell me when they last over ten years!

    To the OP, this should not be happening if, you use the great batteries, you set the charge times with a specific gravity measurement (no more time or voltage than needed), and you have enough solar or charge source so that you go thru the cycle times quickly. Green/blue terminals are usually from batteries that are in bulk /absorb too long and usually because there is not enough solar for your loads and charging. You should be in float after you eat your lunch most days.

    15 minutes a month for maintenance! No deep cycles! No more than one parallel string or go up in battery size. Guaranteed to last over ten years
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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