I need a hand to get this correct

CDN_VT

Building a land camper to see the world.
Toyota landcruiser diesel , with a full roof rack that i want to extend from the windshield to the front bumper for the solar panels, and antennas , a area that is not for holding weight, as the rear of the cargo rack is.

Power sucking units would be refer unit , 12 volt , 65 watt , small cooler. This worked well in 2008 travin CDN and USA , but at night we plugged in to shore power for cooling. That is the main concern , if i have a chance i would also like a wide screen LCD for TV and internet (via sat internet,as i have now) .


This is a work in progress, and the truck is being built now .
I don't have a problem with using the trucks power , but would like to be quite for days , while still having stuff.
All lighting for the camper bits are LED, red for night , white for rude.
I see the fridge / cooler as the biggest power hog.

I am open to any ideas.

VT

BB.

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Regarding solar panels over the hood--Are you planning on folding/stowing for travel--Or are you planning on permanently deployed (driving and parked).

If permanently deployed--have you looked at the wind forces involved to hold the panels in place while driving?

For example, you could be looking at upwards of 20-30 lb per square foot wind loadings (or more?).

For example, a 175 watt panel wind rated to 50 PSF (PDF) are ~32"x62" x2 panels = 13.8 sqft. 2 panels would be 27.6 sqft

• 2*13.8 sqft * 50 PSF = 1,380 lbs of wind loading

Batteries, solar panels, etc. all take up space and can weigh a fair amount. If your loads are significant--Your best bet is probably a Honda eu1000i genst. Light, quiet, and does not consume very much fuel. 225 watt load for 8 hours on 0.6 gallons of fuel...

Regarding a refrigerator--65 watts * 24 hours per day (???) is actually quite a bit of power. There are some units that may be more efficient--or look at other alternatives (propane powered fridge?).

You need to measure your loads (watts * hours per day used) and how much solar panel you can fit on your vehicle.

For example, the above 2x175 watt solar panels, assuming a relatively good 4 hours per day (summer time, average sun), and 0.52 end to end efficiency of an solar / battery system:

• 2x175 watts * 4 hours of full sun per day * 0.52 = 728 WH per day

Just running the fridge (if 65 watts full time):

• 728 WH / 65 Watts = 11.2 hours per day run time from solar

Generally, people over estimate how much power a solar system can generate and underestimate their electrical usage.

Where you will be camping also drastically affects solar generation (up north in the winter vs down south in the summer, etc.). Local weather conditions (coastal marine layer, summer monsoons, etc.) If you will be up north and/or doing winter camping--the ability to tilt the panels up to face the low winter sun can be a help too.

Some handy items to measure power usage:

• Kill-a-Watt meter (for 120 VAC plug in appliances)
• DC Amp*Hour / Watt Hour meter (for battery loads)

-Bills

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Ahh , your still up !! Mr BB

Yes hard bolted and driving them down the road. Max speed is 110kph.
I have wind storms here that are worse. And the diesel is slow but sure.

I also can make an area of storage under the panels for more that can be plugged in and parallel the array .

the top roof cargo rack is also for a upper tent / sleeping area when were in a spot of , better be not food tonight. But not always used.

I know storage (batterys) is also the biggy , but since im building , anything can happen.
I can post pix , as like i do with the yota (toyota guys) boyz.

I have been buying lots of 12V led MR16 and other LEDs , Cree to many others.

This is a 4 to 5 year build , and a love of doing this.

Propane fridge is not out of the question , BUT propane in South America or Africa is not the quick as SUN !!!

There is no rush , and i will supply pix of the project.

Bought 3 trucks to make this one.

VT

Cariboocoot

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

I agree with Bill; the panels over the hood aren't a good idea. At speed they will create lift on the front axle making the steering erratic and dangerous.

But do you need to do it? Probably not. My whole cabin runs on 700 Watts of panels which fit in roughly a 5 x 12 foot space. You're right that the refrigerator will be the big user. My system runs a full size 'frige (small ones don't use proportionally less energy) plus satellite Internet connection with phone & computer and the water pump and the digestor pump and everything else, including the occasional microwave zap. My guess is that your total cumulative load will be a lot less.

But it is a guess. So the first thing you should do is get some 'real world' readings on what you're planning on using and for how long so you know what kind of Watt hours per day you'll need. Then you can see how much battery is required and how many panels to recharge (there will be a loss due to not being able to get perfect insolation at all times).

A couple of suggestions: add an auxiliary alternator to the engine that can provide dedicated power systems charging when driving. Add a couple of portable panels to the gear which can be pointed towards the sun when parked to pick up a few extra Watts. You can never have too much solar power!

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

MrBB &
Cariboocoot

I have a killa watt meter, so i will put the fridge / cooler in action and post the results,
Thanks gents for the ideas so far.

Here is the cooler , or one just like it.
http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10284871&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|111|20535&N=4009784&Mo=5&No=2&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=20538&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C

VT

Cariboocoot

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

I use a cooler similar to that in my travels. Be advised they aren't very efficient. For one thing, they don't cool to a particular temperature. Rather they lower the interior temperature by 'X degrees' in relation to the outside temperature. This means the warmer it is outside (or inside the vehicle) the warmer it is inside the cooler. Not the same as real refrigeration. Maybe you should consider an actual RV type refrigerator. They're small and often can be got used for cheap. Then you could have a 3-way unit: runs on 12V, propane, or 120. For serious traveling it would be better.

BB.

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

I believe that is a standard thermo-electric (Peltier) type cooler... They tend not to be very energy efficient.

LP or a cooler with a real compressor would probably be a better fit.

However--I have seen very few Amp*Hour/KWH ratings for small electric coolers--You pretty much have to borrow one for a day or too and throw kWH / Amp*Hour meter on one to find out how much power they really use.

-Bill

dwh

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

You might want to consider something like this:

http://www.thetford.com/HOME/Products/NorcoldRefrigeratorsHome/MRFT40/tabid/200/Default.aspx

Which appears (specs are a bit vague) to draw 2.5a@12v, which is about half the draw of the unit you have now. And since it's a compressor type, the compressor probably won't be running all the time. Pretty sure it also has a thermostat.


As for sticking the PV out over the hood on a rack, I don't see any insurmountable problems there. If you are building the rack yourself, then you can put an air dam on the front to deflect most of the wind, and you can deflect it upwards to avoid lifting the weight off the axle.

My concern would be twisting - truck frames (even Land Cruiser frames) do twist (in fact are *designed* to do so), and if the corners of the rack were connected down to the bumper or the frame, you could end up twisting your panels. That would certainly destroy them.

Off-road racers and rock crawlers sometimes prefer to allow for the twist and so they mount the roll cage to allow for it. Here is a picture of some motor and transmission mounts, but I've seen roll cages connected to frames with a similar arrangement (the picture is just so you get the idea). Thus, the frame is allowed to twist, but the roll cage remains inflexible:

http://www.chaosfab.com/product/accessories/toy2wd/92400.jpg

If it were me, I'd probably choose to support the front of the rack with a single center down tube, mounted to a pivot point between the frame rails. That should prevent any twisting being transferred to the rack. The "3-point mount" is also accepted practice for "excursion vehicles" (motorhomes built on an off-road chassis). The front of the box is mounted with two points, but the rear is mounted on a single point to allow for frame twist.


In the 3rd world, theft IS an issue and anything that can be nicked quickly will end up liberated, but with proper care, the PV could be made very difficult to remove. I had a friend who was a welder. He built a 4x4 rig with an expensive winch/bumper on the front. He welded the nuts to the bolts at all the attachment points. The truck was stolen, and a few things stripped off it, but the winch and bumper were still there. Didn't bother him a bit that he'd need a grinder or torch if he ever needed to remove the winch or the bumper.


For an FJ40 or FJ60 I think two aux batteries is enough. 4 would be nice, but heavy. I would use AGMs so I wouldn't have to worry about checking the water levels.

You'll definitely want to be able to charge the house batteries from the engine alternator, and the best way to do that is undoubtedly the SmartGauge RELAY based system. In the SmartGauge Technical Info section you can find an explanation of why diode type isolators (what you will see in every auto parts store) are bad:

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/diodes.html

The common mis-conception (which I also used to believe) is that there is a large current surge when the two batteries are tied together. This SmartGauge tech doc has the math to explain why that is a myth:

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/nosurge2.html

My camper van has a very simple split-charge relay setup. Basically, it's just a heavy-duty relay (like what you'd find on an electric winch), wired so that when the alternator is putting out current, the relay is energized and the engine and house batteries are connected together. It's virtually bulletproof, works great and avoids the problems of a diode isolator. Had I wired it, I would have added a switch so that I could activate the relay at will to jump start off the house battery. But it works, so why fix it?

I don't think I'd go to the trouble to mount a second alternator; since the starting battery would be re-charged fairly quickly, most of the standard alternator's output would end up diverted to the house bank anyway.


For the solar charger, the MorningStar SunSaver Duo is probably the perfect unit:

http://store.solar-electric.com/modubachco25.html

BB.

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Dometic also makes 3 way portable coolers like this one:

Dometic 3 way powered (LP Native) portable cooler

I have no idea about the vendor or the cooler (how well or how efficiently)--but that would be along the lines I would investigate.

Regarding dual/tri-powerd RV LP refrigerators... Many of them are really thermal powered ammonia type units. The LP heats the ammonia "boiler" and the 12/120 VAC powered versions do just the same thing (heating the boiler). And, as such, I don't believe that they are that energy efficient for use with electrical power sources...

So, the above link appears to be the same thing:

Efficient Performance - the absorption system in this refrigerator cools just like standard kitchen models. Cold air flows over, under and around food items, creating ideal storage condition. Plus, it's quiet - no clicking, humming or noisy compressor to spoil a tranquil moment.

The Dometic may be more or less efficient on 12 volts vs the Peltier equivalent (more insulation, more efficient ammonia absorption cycle )--But short of measuring the long term power use--I have no hard facts as to which is better.

You may end up having to make trade-offs... Run 12 volts when you are driving and a bit of solar--and use LP when stopped... Or look at a compressor type unit like Marc suggests and figure out how to power that at camp.

Lot more options to look through at this link.

-Bill

dwh

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

BB. wrote: »

And, as such, I don't believe that they are that energy efficient for use with electrical power sources...

-Bill

They sure aren't. The specs on the little Norcold 323 (the smallest they make) in my camper say it pulls 11.7a@12v. It's wired for it, and I tested it to just to make sure it worked, but there is no way that's gonna ever be run off the house battery.

Pulls 1.2a@120v though, so I could easily run it from the generator...but it runs for a month (on low) from the built-in 5g propane tank so I doubt I'll ever use it on AC other than shore power.

I can see running it from DC while driving, but switching it back and forth from propane to electric is just another minor hassle, so I don't bother unless it's parked with shore power. That might be a different story though if I were going on an extended trip - driving several hours a day for weeks on end. Then it would probably be worth it to switch to 12v before hitting the road every day.

But if I had solar, I would prefer an all electric - for one thing (and probably important to the OP) the ammonia absorption units require that they be level within like 2 degrees (or risk voiding the warranty) whereas the compressor models are rated for something like up to 30 degrees off level.

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

All great Points and lots to ponder.
Mr Bill , and Marc . great reading your thoughts and the fridge the Norcold MRFT40 is something also looking into. That cooler i used across CDN/USA was just good enough for the trip , plus each night it was on shore / motel power.
On this trip , We will be camping as to say, and the solar plus having more Independence from the grid ..

Thanks gents for the help and thoughts.
I will post pix of this rack and truck when there is something more than just a plan.
The truck is body and frame getting metal work done. After welding plus re-caulking seams plus the insulation and wiring harness to be installed.

Just a pix of the start.

VT

icarus

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Just for the record, a Dometic is very much more efficient that an TED cooler. My 8 cuft Dometic draws ~350 watts on 12vdc or 120vac The smaller ones have heating elements of ~110 watts. I have never seen the small portable L/P cooler in person, but my guess is that it will be fairly efficient compared to a TED cooler.

Tony

http://www.dometic.com/enau/Asia-Pacific/Australia/Product-ranges/Portable-Refrigerators/Refrigerators--freezers/

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

dwh wrote: »

My camper van has a very simple split-charge relay setup. Basically, it's just a heavy-duty relay (like what you'd find on an electric winch), wired so that when the alternator is putting out current, the relay is energized and the engine and house batteries are connected together. It's virtually bulletproof, works great and avoids the problems of a diode isolator. Had I wired it, I would have added a switch so that I could activate the relay at will to jump start off the house battery. But it works, so why fix it?

I don't think I'd go to the trouble to mount a second alternator; since the starting battery would be re-charged fairly quickly, most of the standard alternator's output would end up diverted to the house bank anyway.

Yes i agree. I have a smaller setup as you posted , right now.
My Alt is 140 amp @ 14.2 volt max after a few hrs driving. The newer cars also can take the batteries up to 16V + (depends on temp) , to do a cell normalize or balance, that is getting really picky , plus im not going to add computers more than required. There what you call , throw away cars after 10 years.

Right now the "house battery's" are charged by the Main alt after 20 seconds of idle / running , or enough time to let the Starter battery take the first and full replenish , then a timer lets a 40Amp relay connect the two only running . I could up the power size / relays and wire , BUT the alt to supply Car , Starter battery , and then replenish the house battery's , most Ive seen is 35 amps on a amp gauge that has a max needle.

What my main thinking / dream is to have a fridge (like you folks posted , 1000, bucks over a 100 $ cooler , like i have now) and the ability not to have an engine running daily to keep the battery's up.
LP is not out of the question, Just i would need to make sure exhaust is handled . LP cooking is going to be outside, i need to rethink about that fridge also.
The keeping of LP fridges level because of Absorption technology quirks in a off road truck has me thinking that the system would need more work. Not saying Im going rock crawling (if you met my wife , you would know that's out of the question) , but after some banging along logging / back / rough roads, would that type of system still work ?
Regardless of where the heat is from , 12 v /115V heater /LP flame .

Anyone with info on these fridges.

Thanks.

Everyone's ideas make me rethink and learn also.

My cooler power so-far:
Kill-watt measure was 1.70 kwh @ 25 hrs on 125 volt power transformer down to 13.6 volts that was feeding the cooler.

cooler was filled with soda / pop / and a few water , all that came from a house fridge.
Im now doing the the straight 12 volt check with a battery maintainer suppling power . In 24 hrs , Ill update this again. Not just for Me , but for later and others.

VT

BB.

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

1.7 kWH per day--that is a bit more than a simple Energy Star full sized (North American) refrigerator will use... It is actually quite difficult to get small/efficient refrigerators.

What has worked well (and might be overkill for you) is a small chest freezer with a refrigerator thermostat conversion... They can use as little as 0.25 kWHr per day for a 7cuft / 200 Liter freezer conversion.

If you an find a smaller chest freezer that would fit your needs--it may be worth the effort to convert.

-Bill

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Yes Bill i read that on the freezer update or Mod a few years ago here.
Very impressive.

This is a two person off road vanagon type of unit / camper I'm building .
That deep freeze conversion idea is fine for a house or cabin , I just have a image of the ice cream truck , and all i need is bells or funny music.
Im joking and smiling ..

I'll post the 12 DC amp draw with the same load as to say.


VT

BB.

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Yea--I know that a standard freezer conversion is not worth it... I keep wondering why we cannot get small energy efficient refrigerators (well--I know why, there is the scaling problem of insulation 3" if insulation on a 15cuft freezer is not a big deal. 3" insulation on a 1 cuft freezer would double the size of the thing--plus the high efficiency compressors are probably not made for this small of cooler)....

-Bill

dwh

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

So...some simple back of the napkin math (backstop me on this you engineers out there)...

1.7kwh / 25h = 0.068kw per hour @ 120v

(I know you said 125, but I'm gonna use 120v (nominal) since it makes the conversion to 12v (nominal) easy.)

That's including the watts that the converter itself uses, so I'm gonna round that down to say 60w per hour for the cooler.

That also makes the math easy - .5a@120v or 5a@12v.

Assuming 2 x 100ah batteries and assuming that you don't want to take them below 50% SoC, then you could run that 5a load (and nothing else) for up to 20 hours.

That's actually not too bad. If it were me going on that trip, I would probably add a small 1000w generator (like the Honda eu1000i) and a 15a or 30a Iota charger. That way if I were parked a few days, I could run the gen for a while and replenish the batteries.

(And I'd want that gen/charger anyway, since running the house battery down and THEN discovering that you also left the headlights on all night and it's raining so the solar isn't doing jack would really suck.)

icarus

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Just FYI, absorption fridges do fine on unlevel or rough roads. What they don't tolerate is sitting out of level (particularly with the first part of the condenser higher than the tip of the boiler). The result is the thermosiphon action of the coolant stops, resulting in overheating of the part of the boiler that is in the flame. A rough road actually encourages the circulation of the coolant, so as long as you don't park for long periods they are fine. Also, there is considerable debate about traveling with the LP lit. Some folks say it is fine and I have been known to do it in a Westfalia. Others think it dangerous to have a live fire burning in a vehicle. I sort of agree, but,,,. That said, most Dometic fridges have a 12vdc element. This is usually not quite big for the fridge to get cold, but is usually big enough for it to stay cold. They keep the element size small to keep the draw on the battery/alternator reasonable. So running on 12 vdc while moving, then turning to LP while stopped is a good alternative.

Dometic made a 3 way fridge specifically for the VW westfalia market. They were quite small, but very efficient, with seal combustion systems so there is no risk of CO in the cabin. These are getting pretty rare as they haven't been made since 1991, but you might find one on Ebay, or in a Westfalia wrecker. You have to be careful with these as they were prone to damage from parking out of level, and I don't think replacement cooling units are available.

The best source for LP fridge info that I know of here: http://rvmobile.com/wb/default.asp?BoardID=2&action=0 Very smart guy, very helpful.

Tony

Cariboocoot

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

I originally suggested a 3-way RV 'frige for its operational versatility. Tony has very nicely pointed out the practicality of it.

I also suggested a second alternator, because unlike a small gen it can't get stolen. Well they could steal the whole truck. But if you can't start the truck 'cause both batteries are dead and the sun isn't shining .. there's nothing better than pulling a rope!

Lots of potential solutions here, each with it's advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on what features the OP deems most necessary for the design, the costs and availability of equipment, and the user's "comfort level" with each option (like burning propane while moving).

dwh

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

I'd still prefer electric. One of these trucker fridges would be about right. 30w when running, and since they are compressor they don't run all the time:

http://www.novakool.com/products/single_doors/r1900_2600.htm

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

dwh wrote: »

(And I'd want that gen/charger anyway, since running the house battery down and THEN discovering that you also left the headlights on all night and it's raining so the solar isn't doing jack would really suck.)

I just checked in to say that i never got a chance to do the straight 12 volt amp/hr check due to family got busy stuff.

Tomorrow is a Holiday (Canuk Day , And we get more taxes on us because of it ,, Yea) ,, So I should get those readings and post so we all get the info for whenever.

I do have a Honda 1000, gen set , Iota 55 / 75 / and 90 amp units,(used for battery maintainers as i program)

I was also thinking of taking the genset for backup , and i believe the one I have has a 12volt output for charging ..

icarus wrote: »

http://www.dometic.com/enau/Asia-Pacific/Australia/Product-ranges/Portable-Refrigerators/Refrigerators--freezers/
Tony

Thanks Tony for the info on the absorption fridges, and i'm not into old used,, The top load over front load seems to be a bit better than to let all the cold out on each open.I did see a 3 way top mount cooler / fridge that was posted ..
I will be looking into maybe a new one.

Dang , the USA & Canukland don't seem to get the ones enau/Asia-Pacific/Australia get. That Dometic DRC4000 3 -Way Portable Refrigerator is way to small, plus wheels aren't required ..

Ill keep looking. But were getting closer, LP is now viable , due to the cooking oven/stove.

Here we can get mostly anything. I'm not to sure about all of South America or into Eastern Europe / African . So best to have a good start...

VT

dwh

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

CDN_VT wrote: »

I was also thinking of taking the genset for backup , and i believe the one I have has a 12volt output for charging ..

Yea, but A) it's only 8 amps and it's unregulated - so if you don't watch it you could overcharge the batteries. Using the Iota is far better...but if that blows up you do still have the DC out on the Honda as a last resort.

I'm a redundancy freak. And I like to always have a backup plan.

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

dwh wrote: »

Yea, but A) it's only 8 amps and it's unregulated - so if you don't watch it you could overcharge the batteries. Using the Iota is far better...but if that blows up you do still have the DC out on the Honda as a last resort.

I'm a redundancy freak. And I like to always have a backup plan.

Good point , i had in the back of my air space , that the Honda DC charge can't be used while the ac is used also , or something , and if its unregulated , then that's out for sure. I should have a play with that here for this weekend also (4 days here), and see what it will overcharge a used battery here. Plus get some size's of this unit to see where to weld it / hide it ..

All great points , and thing to consider.

VT

EDIT AND UPDATE:

12volt draw on the / this cooler is 4.8 amps at start after an hour of sitting (cuz Honda gen was testing me) to 4 amps at 13.9 volt being supplied by a iota / midy PSC55, then switched it to Honda 1000 gen set , supplying 110 / 120 volt 60hz to a killa-watt meter to the iota / midy 55 amp DC power supply.

4 hours run was .23 kwh from kill-a-watt meter, still 4 amps 13.9 volt dc . I caught it just as 1/2 tank of fuel used was now on vapors.

I hope this helps for the stuff.


You know , we all want huge power from tiny solar panels

Since you gents are helping , I figured Id do some testing since , the goop is here close at hand.

Thinking about those 3 ways fridges , but 220 V ac ,, I could do some reworking just for a heater ??


VT





l

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

OK test on the Honda gen set charging a 750 cold crank auto battery , used , 3 years guessing. MTD 58 series from interstate. Fits a euro suv diesel

Starting volts were 11.8
after 3 hrs of honda 12 Volt dc get set charging
max voltage was 14 / 14.2 bouncing (measured with a fluke dvm)

I did a battery check afterwards with a VAT 40 , all was good with the battery

And i did check that Honda manual , only 12 v dc OR ac power , not both.

So this 1000 gen set is huge and heavy, i think back in the 70's / 80 's they had 350's or 600's that were tiny, Now that is more along the with Solar and self contained / small.


Thanks for the Ideas so far, and the testing i did was for me and reference.



So i need to find an Auzi fridge , convert it to 110 , Its eazy to use 1/2 of 220 in europe and get 110 , but to think of 110 to even get warm for a 220 fridge heater , NaDa .. Next week I'll call the company , and see.

So panels best for welding / bolting to the RACK ?? Plus a voltage regulator system , that will allow the bolted panels plus a few add on plug in's to the array.

I need good dependable rough type of panels.


VT

Cariboocoot

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

You think a Honda 1000 is "huge and heavy"? I can lift mine with one hand, and I'm an old man!

Would you like to try and move my Onan 3kW unit?

Honda used to make a smaller unit, but there wasn't much size/weight saving over the 1000 and there was significantly less power.

You may still be able to find some "oriental knock-off" versions of less power/weight - but they tend to be 2-stroke engines.

Look at "RV mounts" for your panels: http://store.solar-electric.com/rvsopamo.html
Bolting is better than welding here, as it allows a bit more "flex" (but not too much) which is necessary.

icarus

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Honda Eu 1000ix weighs ~29 lbs full of fuel. A Eu 2000 wieghs 46 lbs.

I wouldn't describe either as huge or heavy.

Tony

dwh

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

The only smaller inverter gen I'm aware of is the Generac ix800, but it's only a hair smaller than the eu1000:

http://www.generac.com/Portables/iX/Products/iX800/

I would definitely go with the Honda, and since you already have one...


There is another alternative:

http://www.christieengineering.com.au/Itemdetail.asp?PC=GXH5055ND

But, it's just about the same 50cc Honda engine as what you have, except it screams along at 7,000 rpm and it's loud.

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

I have a EX 1000 unit 1985 model , Ill weigh it.
But 29 lbs , Nada.
EX1000 Specs dry =57 lbs
I'm young, 60 + ..
I have a 6500 honda also , But the Ranch is on a APU of 25kva , propane .

Its the solar im into, Welding / bolting tamperproof , triwing is not a problem.

Ill weigh this , and then get back to , solar stuff.

VT

OK to redeem myself , no fuel since it ran out , and now tank dried for storage, just oil it's weight on a bathroom digital scale came in at 62 LBS .

bryanl

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

re: "I keep wondering why we cannot get small energy efficient refrigerators" -- surface to volume ratio. A small fridge has little volume for a lot of surface area. That means a lot more surface area is available to heat the available volume compared to bigger fridges.

Absorption fridges are slow to cool and rather inefficient. They are popular because propane is common in RV's and has a very high energy density compared to batteries. The DC capability in these things is not for battery but for use on the road when you have an engine alternator that can provide a few hundred watts for their heating elements.

An absorption fridge in a vehicle will have two vents, high and low, with the back sealed off from the inside. The vents can be either floor and roof or low and high on the side. The low vent is often an access port to the fridge mechanism as well.

Traveling with a propane fridge isn't usually a problem, it's stopping for fuel. An open flame (pilot types) or an auto ignite spark (DSI types) can be a bit of a risk if there are gas fumes in the proper concentration. (but so can hot brakes be after a downhill run)

The DSI type absorption fridges are convenient but they draw an amp or so for the control circuits and that can drain a battery over time.

As for the solar panels on the vehicle, I'd keep to the roof and maybe rig it so a second layer could be stored on the first. You don't need the power when traveling. When stopped, remove the 2nd layer and ground mount for optimum solar exposure.

For gensets, look at the Boily as it has more output than the Honda or Yamaha for the weight but is still low noise. Get at least 2kw in order to be able to get a decent charge into a battery bank and that bank will need to be in the 150 to 300 pound range (2 to 4 typical human handleable batteries) to provide a 3 day reserve (300# is about 3 to 4 kWh usable energy)

BB.

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Bryan,

Is this what you are recommending:

http://boliyusa.com/

I only see a 3,000 watt rated unit... 68+ lbs. Probably larger than VT is looking for.

Resembles the Yamaha family?

-Bill

CDN_VT

Re: I need a hand to get this correct

Thanks Bryan for the info.

I'm not against having a gen set , but i do feel that if i do this correctly, the need to have a get set running to charge the battery's is ridiculous.


I once viewed a camper with a genset running a TV (watching nascar 8) }and a blue bug zapper . This is not going to be US.

Having a small fridge / cooler is the largest concern.
Having to fire up the diesel truck to use AC power (truck battery should never get drained if built correctly) to use a high wattage unit is not out of the question , plus it could also do a charge , but that is also something as a last resort for day to day camping..

As for the solar panels on the vehicle, I'd keep to the roof and maybe rig it so a second layer could be stored on the first. You don't need the power when traveling. When stopped, remove the 2nd layer and ground mount for optimum solar exposure. Is what i was planning also .


Gota get a fridge figured. Propane is going to be one way, now that the discussion had me thinking with a clearer mind.
Since I'm building this, adding a few vents , or making things (welding , fabing up stuff ) , now is the time since the body is , just that, metal and all open for any addition.

VT