i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

SystemSystem Posts: 2,511 admin
Hi everyone i am ajay , i want to design a grid tie system for pv and i want to have knowledge on that is it similar to standalone or there changes ...
In adition to this i am attaching a excel sheet also have look at it tell me if its right or not for pv designing of a stand alone system .. actually i made it and i dont know is it right or not....HELLLPPP ME:confused:

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,800 admin
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    Ajay,

    A 1 MW grid tied system is a very large one and requires a lot of hard core engineering--Both on the system design and by the Utility to ensure that it can manage the energy supplied into their electrical network. In some ways, the Utility Engineering and Politics behind Large Grid Tied systems is more involved than the design of the system itself.

    What is it that you are looking to understand? The basic theory behind Grid Tied and how it differs from an Off Grid system?

    Or are you trying to make trade off decisions between a 1MW grid tied vs off grid capable system?

    Your spread sheet did not get attached to your post--and Spread Sheets are not a great way to post information to a forum (virus issues)... Posting questions about what you want to do would probably a better way to start.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    Missing attachment. Looks like Excel is not a supported attachment format.

    "Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt"

    -Pluto
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    Install PDF995 - a print driver that outputs .pdf files - and then you have a pdf which is a supported format.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,800 admin
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    Ajay has not been back since his first post---Probably wait and see where he takes the thread from here...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    I would like to continue this thread instead of starting a new one.

    I am considering up a commercial gried-tied solar PV plant (small one with initial rating of 1MW to start with). I want to know where to start, what I should know etc. I live in the Bay Area in northern CA.

    Below are some of the things I can think of -

    * Real Estate (How big)? I guess I can apply for permit to build in public land? Also, what would be the best location?
    * approx hardware cost - details to be worked out.
    * Installations/Deployment costs? Reliable installers?
    * rebates from CA/Fed?
    * How much loan can I expect. Assuming this project will cost around $10 Million how does the loan thing work? How much do I need to invest out of pocket? Any clues on attracting investors?
    * Regulations/approvals etc from local Utility (PG&E)

    BTW, has anyone looked at www.alibaba.com for getting solar panels and other hardware? How reliable are these businesses?

    Any guidance is helpful.

    Thanks!
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    Sounds a bit like Underpants Gnomes to me.

    Phase 1: Collect Underpants
    Phase 2: ?
    Phase 3: Profit

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomes_%28South_Park%29


    If you want to build a plant, then I guess the first question that needs to be answered is who is going to buy the power?

    Onassis said he expanded his fleet and built supertankers by first getting signed "letters of intent" from oil companies saying that IF he got the ships AND could ship for the price he quoted, THEN they WOULD sign shipping contracts with him. After that he just had to borrow the money to build the ships, which he could do because he already had the customers lined up.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    I assume PG&E will buy - just the way it (or some other Utility in CA) will buy from several other Solar (or other RE) plants.

    http://www.pge.com/b2b/energysupply/wholesaleelectricsuppliersolicitation/standardcontractsforpurchase/index.shtml

    I would like to understand the technical issues involved first including the practicality etc. I am just trying to get my hands around the concept first. I have not thought about the full financial aspects yet.

    Appreciate any thoughts. I noticed several excellent posts on this forum. Few days back someone else was also looking for similar details.

    Thanks!
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    "Service under this Schedule is on a first-come-first-served basis and shall be closed to new customers once the combined rated generating capacity of Eligible Renewable Energy Resource within PG&E’s service territory reaches 104.603 megawatts, as set forth in D. 07-07-027, effective July 26, 2007."

    So I guess the next question is: How close are they to that 104mw limit, and can you build a new plant before they hit the limit?


    From the FAQ, a partial answer on location:

    "Are there any special steps I need to take if my facility will be interconnecting in San Francisco or Oakland?

    Yes. Customers planning on interconnecting generators in San Francisco or Oakland should contact PG&E’s Generation Interconnection Services (GIS) department while in the planning stage of their project, before purchasing equipment and beginning installation. If the planned generator site is in an area served by a secondary network, the customer will not be able to export power to the grid. A non-export option may be available. Please contact GIS at (415) 972-5676 to ask about the specifics of your plans before you make any purchases, and we will discuss your options with you."


    If it were me, I'd be looking at 1.5mw instead of 1mw, and I'd call that number and talk to them.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    Good points!

    I am almost certain PG&E will increase their caps and will be forced to buy everything RE generated by anyone esp., after the BP disaster and Obama's speech I just finished watching. Remember we passed AB 920 last year and PG&E lost Prop 17 few days back. In any case, leaving out the politics and policies, any technical help with my original questions will be very helpful. Let us assume someone is buying the energy and there are no rebates from anyone.

    Thanks!
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    You can't actually consider a project like this without considering the financials at the same time. A whole lot of the technical decisions will be dictated by financial considerations. Like this:

    http://www.environmentalleader.com/2009/09/04/crayola-adding-15mw-solar-to-factory/

    "The 15-acre solar panel park is expected to start generation in early 2010. Eventually, the facility will draw up to 1.5 megawatts of power from 26,000 photovoltaic solar panels, according to a press release."


    Okay, so which solar panels to use? Well, HOW MUCH can we get a boat load for?

    OR

    Take a look at this:

    http://www.brighterenergy.org/7997/news/solar/tioga-develops-1-5mw-solar-capacity-for-bjs-wholesale-club/

    See that building? What if you combined forces with a developer, and built a shopping center and put the solar array on the roof? Then you not only get to sell to PG&E, but you get rent too. AND most of those shopping center developers work out deals with the city to get tax breaks by bringing in lynchpin businesses (like brand name stores).

    OR

    15 acres might not be readily available, so maybe something smaller like solar concentrators:

    http://energydeals.wordpress.com/2010/06/03/1-5-mw-maricopa-solar-plant-peoria-arizona/

    "Tessera, based in Scottsdale, Arizona, has PPAs to build the 750-megawatt Imperial Valley, California project for San Diego Gas & Electric, using 30,000 systems; Calico, San Bernardino County, California project for Southern California Edison with 34,000 SunCatchers; and the 27-megawatt Western Ranch Solar, in Texas for CPS Energy, with 1,080 SunCatcher systems. Lukefahr says at an expected cost of lower than $3 million a megawatt, he’s expecting SunCatchers to eventually being cost-competitive with other generation resources – and ever more prolific."


    That's almost half what PV would cost. With 10mil to play with, you could setup three corporations and install 3 x 1.5mw plants.
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: i want to design the 1MW grid tie system for PV ....

    For the size of investment, complexity, regulatory, considerations, plus, plus you are talking about you have to deal with an engineering firm if you are really interested.

    Obama's speech was nothing more than politics as normal - 99% smoke. Kind of like his kicking a** comment. Trying to be like the big boys but doesn't understand the game.
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