problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

lamplight

Hi
installed it, working great.

needs to be programmed for P1(absorb voltage=14.8), P2 (amps when charged), currently set to 10) and P3(AH capacity of bank) in order to determine if its been charged or not. all displays are reading correctly but when i go to the history items, only H1, H7 and H8 are showing. the others are blank, as in "--- "

I will paste the definitions of the various Hx displays below. I don't understand why it's not showing that data, I have programmed the unit to be in "Level 2" correctly, which enables the Hx displays. Furthermore the system should have enough information to display that info. I've gone through the directions a few times and i don;t see if i'm missing anything. does anyone have one of these, or does the 2020 or whatever you might have work similarly so you might tell me what to check for? I have emailed bogart engineering a few days ago with no answer. thanks for any tips or help!

Group 1: H1.1: Cumulative Lifetime Battery (discharging) Amp hours: Displays how many amp- hours have been withdrawn from the battery system over its lifetime. This number starts at 0 when manually reset which would usually be at the time of initial installation of the batteries. See reference to “RESET” button in figure 1 for how to do this. Every time the value of amps is negative (charge is leaving the battery) the display counts "amp- hours" down. But it does not change when battery is charging (amps is positive.) . It analogous to a car odometer to tell how much service the batteries have seen
When the batteries are replaced, this number can be noted measure the total energy which your batteries have delivered in their lifetime, which can be used to evaluate performance of the batteries and the level of care which they received. In case of power interruption to the meter you will only lose a maximum of 3 hours of this data--because this data is automatically stored every 3 hours. This number can be displayed to -999,000 amp hours, which is longer than most battery sets would be expected to last. (Should it ever reach this high it should be reset--since it does not, just roll over to zero by itself after 999,999.)
Often battery life of "deep cycle" batteries is rated by the number of discharge cycles it will undergo without failure--however this usually assumes a fairly complete discharge during each cycle, followed by complete recharge. The life of deep cycle batteries is increased if the discharge depth is less--in fact the number of
9
cycles of life is inversely related to the depth of discharge of each cycle--so if you discharge only half the amount during each "cycle" the battery will last about twice as many cycles.
Another way to look at this is that when buying batteries you have a choice whether to double the number of batteries in your battery set—which will reduce the average cycle depth of discharge to one-half. A less deep discharge should result in longer life for the set: but the question is will you get double the life if you did that—which would be required to break even on the additional investment. Typically the life would increase to about double, so there would be little cost benefit. (Of course you’d get more days of autonomy.) . But in a vehicle it would add extra weight. This measurement made by the TriMetric is a way of getting quantatative data on these kinds of questions.
Group 2: H2.x – H6.x Charge/discharge cycle data for last 5 cycles. Each discharge/charge cycle begins at the time the battery is “fully charged” and ends at the next “full charge”—for more precise definition see section 6.2: How the TriMetric keeps track of battery % full. The cycles begin and end exactly at step 3 in that section. Each item below records data for (up to) the five most recent complete cycles.
H2.1 through H2.5: How many hours ago that the cycle in question ended (H2.1 most recent. H2.5 oldest data).
H3.1 through H3.5: Length of the cycle in question, in hours. You can see how much time goes by between full battery charges. Frequently charging them helps keep them from permanently losing capacity. It’s also useful to observe that the TriMetric “charged” setpoints (P1 and P2) are properly set to register the cycles— otherwise the “Battery % full” display will not be correct.
H4.1 through H4.5: Average amps over each cycle in question, which shows how much energy your system wastes over each cycle—hopefully a small number. To get this number, the meter measures the net amount of amp hours from one charge cycle to the next, and divides by the length of cycle in hours. For example if over one cycle it takes 20 more amp hours to recharge the batteries compared with discharging them, and the cycle takes 24 hours, then the average extra amps over that cycle is 20÷24=0.83 amps. A positive number represents the average extra charging amps required to maintain the battery over that one cycle. This gives very useful information about the efficiency of the system. A typical number might be between +.5 and +5.0 amps. If batteries were perfect, and you got out exactly as much energy as you put in during one cycle—and if the cycles were measured exactly, this number would be 0. 00 amps. But typically you lose some energy from self discharge, and also from the beneficial overcharging that occurs when the batteries are being fully charged when the batteries are gassing. If this number is an excessively large positive number, that would indicate possibly that batteries were losing a lot more energy than they should, or also it could indicate that something is not wired up correctly to the shunt, for example a load is not being seen by the TriMetric on the “amps” display. Or if it shows up often or always as a negative number this would also indicate a miswiring to the shunt (charge controller or charger that isn’t getting measured on the amps display, for example.) There should be some consistency in the readings. Although the value is ordinarily positive, they can even occasionally be negative when the temperature of your batteries drops from beginning to ending of a cycle—in this case they will accept less charge at lower temperature to appear “charged”, making them look more efficient than they really are. For the same reason, when the temperature rises over a cycle you should find this number more positive than usual. Also, if you do an equalization cycle the number will be more positive than usual.
H5.1 through H5.5: Minimum voltage during each cycle. This can show if the batteries are being run too low before being recharged.
H6.1-through H6.5: Minimum Battery % full during each cycle. This is another check to see that the batteries are not being run too low before being recharged.
Group 3: H7.x – H8.x. Volts and Amps data on each of previous 5 days: H7.1 through H7.5: Maximum (filtered) battery volts on last five days. (see 6.2.5 for definition of “filtered”)
H8.1 through H8.5: (Filtered) amps value: which depends on whether H7 maximum voltage on that day was less or greater than the “charged voltage” setpoint programmed in program P1.
If the H7 (maximum filtered voltage) on a particular day is less than the “charged voltage” setpoint: Then the amps value (for that day) is the (filtered) amps value at the moment that the maximum voltage
occurred.
If the H7 (maximum filtered voltage) on a particular day is greater than the “charged voltage: setpoint: Then the amps value is the minimum (filtered) amps during the time that the volts is greater than the
“charged voltage” setpoint
10
The last two items are intended to show how close to “charged” the battery system got on that day. It is particularly useful if it appears the “days since charged” has a suspiciously high number of days, indicating that the system is not reaching the “Charged’ parameters when it should. Using H7 data you can find out, for each of the previous five days (1) Did the battery voltage reach the “charged setpoint voltage”? and if not, by how much did it miss? And you can then check the “Amps” value (H8) to see what the current was at the highest voltage. Maybe the charged setpoints are wrong. Or your charger needs adjusting, or there wasn’t enough sun that day. Remember that the meter must reach the filtered values of volts and amps, which is not exactly what the regular display values are. See section 6.2, step 5 for a description of “filtered”, and how to observe them.

addco

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

lamplight wrote: »

Hi
installed it, working great.

needs to be programmed for P1(absorb voltage=14.8), P2 (amps when charged), currently set to 10) and P3(AH capacity of bank) in order to determine if its been charged or not. all displays are reading correctly but when i go to the history items, only H1, H7 and H8 are showing. the others are blank, as in "--- "

I've got a 2025 as well and it's a great source of information.

To get the displays you're looking for, the unit needs to go through at least one complete charge/discharge cycle. (five of them to fill all the displays) It sounds like it is not acknowledging a fully charged condition of the batteries. Have you ever seen the "Charging" LED go flashing indicating fully charged???

You say you have P1 set to 14.8 volts.... This sounds too high to me. You 14.8 volts is a good BULK charge voltage for most FLA batteries. The absorption voltage would be lower, maybe around 13.6 volts. The Tri-Metric P1 parameter needs to be set just below the absorption voltage OF YOUR CHARGING SYSTEM. Check the charger's manual or check the battery voltage while charging and the batteries being fully charged.

The Tri-Metric will not acknowledge "fully charged" until the following conditions are met: Battery voltage ABOVE the P1 setting, and Charging amps BELOW P2.

What kind of charger are you using? I'm guessing that your charger drops into a lower "absorption" voltage before the charge current gets down to 10 amps and the "fully charged" criteria are never met.

Your P2 setting might be too high, also.... The manual recommends setting P2 at your battery Ah capacity divided by 50. (Although I go closer to 90)

The thing to do is check the voltage & amperage while the batteries are undergoing a charge. When the batteries are getting near fully charged (Amperage has dropped to some very low level), look to see what the voltage & current are. Set P1 just under this voltage, and P2 just above the amperage.

There's also another parameter available under L3, which sets a minimum time the charged criteria must be met before acknowledging fully charged. (P14?) I have this set for 1 hour to eliminate any falsing due to voltage transients and to ensure that the batteries get fully charged before the cycle is reset.

Hope this helps.
Let me know how it works out.

addco

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

Your P2 setting might be too high, also

Oops... I meant to say too LOW here.

lamplight

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

ok i may have misunderstood what they meant by absorb voltage. i will check it next time im here and set it. i never really noticed what the absorb voltage gets to, though i do know the amps drop way down eventually. ok im relieved that its just me misunderstanding something, and also that someone took the time to try to help, thanks again and ill do what you suggest.

lamplight

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

Finally getting you some answers:

addco wrote: »

the "Charging" LED go flashing indicating fully charged???

Hi, oddly yes it is. also battery goes to 100% (or 102, 104 sometimes) and decreases each night appropriately.

addco wrote: »

You say you have P1 set to 14.8 volts.... This sounds too high to me. You 14.8 volts is a good BULK charge voltage for most FLA batteries. The absorption voltage would be lower, maybe around 13.6 volts. The Tri-Metric P1 parameter needs to be set just below the absorption voltage OF YOUR CHARGING SYSTEM. Check the charger's manual or check the battery voltage while charging and the batteries being fully charged.

I'm not sure I understand. now that im thinking about it the absorb stage stays at the absorb voltage for a timed setpoint (and/or until amps get to a certain lowered point if configured that way). 13.2 /13.6 might be a float voltage that you're thinking of.
my absorb voltage is set for 14.99 (L16 batteries), so according to the trimetric manual i should set P1 1-2% below that, i played it safe and set for 14.8 which is well below it to account for temperature compensation.

addco wrote: »

The Tri-Metric will not acknowledge "fully charged" until the following conditions are met: Battery voltage ABOVE the P1 setting, and Charging amps BELOW P2.

This MAY have been my problem. see below.

addco wrote: »

What kind of charger are you using? I'm guessing that your charger drops into a

morningstar tsmppt 60. it absorbs (14.99v )for 150 minutes. im PRETTY DARN sure it stays at 14.99 for the full 150 mins but the amps drop.

addco wrote: »

Your P2 setting might be too high, also.... The manual recommends setting P2 at your battery Ah capacity divided by 50. (Although I go closer to 90)

actually, when i went to reprogram it at your suggestion, the manual says multiply and hours x 2, then divide result by 100. my cals are: 1104 x 2 = 2208 / 100 = 22.08. i HAD 10 in there as the user directions are less clear than the INSTALL directions, but really it comes doewn to i was reading the USER directions and made assumptions about the charge amps. see, i knew from monitoring that it got down well below 10 amps when nearing the end of the absorb phase so i set it at 10. now that ive set it at 22 i dont think its going to make a difference. i think i had it set that way at first anyhow.

addco wrote: »

The thing to do is check the voltage & amperage while the batteries are undergoing a charge.

yes hope to do so today if i can otherwise will have to wait a couple days, but im pretty sure what ill see (described above)

i appreciate your help, i hope to find out what i must be doing wrong.

lamplight

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

addco wrote: »

The Tri-Metric will not acknowledge "fully charged" until the following conditions are met: Battery voltage ABOVE the P1 setting, and Charging amps BELOW P2.

see, this is why i think i have something else wrong, as even with my incorrect values this did happen, many days in a row. in fact like i said for h.1, h.6 and h.7 i can see the history for the last few days. just nothing (except "---" on h.2 through h6).

addco

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

lamplight wrote: »

see, this is why i think i have something else wrong, as even with my incorrect values this did happen, many days in a row. in fact like i said for h.1, h.6 and h.7 i can see the history for the last few days. just nothing (except "---" on h.2 through h6).

OK, so you WERE meeting the "charged" criteria. That's not the problem. Looks like your P1 setpoint was OK after all, and I agree that raising P2 won't make any difference on your issue. (Only will meet the charged criteria a bit sooner. I'd keep it at 10A if you know that the current falls below this level when charged.)

The only other thing I can think of is this: On page 5 of the user manual, on the chart of "display descriptions" you can see that h.2 through h.6 have an asterisk next to them. The footnote says:

"charge/discharge cycle refers to the time beginning from a fully charged battery, followed by
partial discharge (to less than 90%), and ending when charging it back up to “charged” again.
Data is displayed only when discharge again goes below 90%."

Are you discharging to below 90% during each cycle?

If you are, then I'm stumped, and I would guess that there's something wrong with the meter. Unlikely, but possible. H.2 through h.6 are the only ones looking for charge/discharge cycles. h.7 & h.8 are counting by days. I suppose it's possible that there's something wrong internally preventing the history registers from acknowledging the beginning/end of a charged cycle, but it doesn't seem likely.

I bought mine from Randy at BestConverter.com, and he told me he never gets returns on these units. They're supposed to be rock solid.

Let me know if you learn anything further. Best of luck!

lamplight

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

addco wrote: »

The only other thing I can think of is this: On page 5 of the user manual, on the chart of "display descriptions" you can see that h.2 through h.6 have an asterisk next to them. The footnote says:

"charge/discharge cycle refers to the time beginning from a fully charged battery, followed by
partial discharge (to less than 90%), and ending when charging it back up to “charged” again.
Data is displayed only when discharge again goes below 90%."

Are you discharging to below 90% during each cycle?

no i'm not! thats got to be the issue, thanks so much, what a relief. yeah i had no reason to suspect the reliability of the unit they are widelely respected.

great to know, thanks again!

addco

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

lamplight wrote: »

no i'm not! thats got to be the issue, thanks so much, what a relief. yeah i had no reason to suspect the reliability of the unit they are widelely respected.

great to know, thanks again!

Good deal! Glad we could solve it! When I noticed how many Ah of battery you had I started thinking maybe that was it.

One thing you might try if you don't regularly discharge to below 90% is to re-program the "battery capacity" (P.3) parameter to say, 1/2 of your actual capacity. Then the percent full reading would be lower by a factor of 2.

90% full would read as 80% (10% discharged x 2)
80% full would read as 60%, etc.

This way you could accumulate the history data you want. You'd need to make the mental calculation when viewing "percent full", but the Amp-Hours in or out of the battery would still be correct, and that's the critical piece of information anyway, IMO.

Best of Luck!

lamplight

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

addco wrote: »

One thing you might try if you don't regularly discharge to below 90% is to re-program the "battery capacity" (P.3) parameter to say, 1/2 of your actual capacity. Then the percent full reading would be lower by a factor of 2.

90% full would read as 80% (10% discharged x 2)
80% full would read as 60%, etc.

This way you could accumulate the history data you want. You'd need to make the mental calculation when viewing "percent full", but the Amp-Hours in or out of the battery would still be correct, and that's the critical piece of information anyway, IMO.

Best of Luck!

I did take your advise and do this (halving the programmed amp hours) , though I STILL haven't reached lower than 90% on the display

might have to use some power just to see it soon (of course this wont be an issue in winter)

thanks again!

lamplight

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

Just as an update... i actually just yesterday ended up setting my bank size to 20% of actual just so i can get some history data since i wasnt discharging that low. thatnks agin for this suggestion i never would have thought of setting it lower on purpose. so now i just have to remember to multiple the % discharged X 20%. works like a charm ., great meter, so good to see accurate numbers of loads are charging current!! (which is disturbing in some ways, to see how wrong my charge controller is :roll:

nsaspook

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

lamplight wrote: »

Just as an update... i actually just yesterday ended up setting my bank size to 20% of actual just so i can get some history data since i wasnt discharging that low. thatnks agin for this suggestion i never would have thought of setting it lower on purpose. so now i just have to remember to multiple the % discharged X 20%. works like a charm ., great meter, so good to see accurate numbers of loads are charging current!! (which is disturbing in some ways, to see how wrong my charge controller is :roll:

Maybe it's just my background in industrial calibration bugging me but why are the readouts on so many retail solar chargers so bad? Is it really that hard to spend the 25c each more for a few precision resistors or do a digital trim in the software, has it just not been important for correct system operation?

Meters like Trimetric seem to have no problems getting 0.3% for voltages and 1.0% for current.

addco

Re: problem with history data on my trimetric 2025

nsaspook wrote: »

Maybe it's just my background in industrial calibration bugging me but why are the readouts on so many retail solar chargers so bad? Is it really that hard to spend the 25c each more for a few precision resistors or do a digital trim in the software, has it just not been important for correct system operation?

Meters like Trimetric seem to have no problems getting 0.3% for voltages and 1.0% for current.

Yeah, I see the same thing from my charge controller. (Tends to read higher charging amps than the Tri-Metric meter shows.)

My guess is this is not by accident. The Mfr's want to err on the high side. Makes customers happy when they see all those solar amps flowing.
If their controllers read low, they'd be getting complaints from people....

Ignorance is bliss.