NorthWind Power info

niel

Re: NorthWind Power info

it's hard to say as it depends on which free standing tower it is. that one appears to be about 60ft and maybe somebody may recognize the tower of which there are many that do not need guy wires. wind load abilities can vary from about 3sq ft to over 20sq ft and if i remember rightly that may be at about a 50mph wind. they get pricey.

System2

Re: NorthWind Power info

I finally remembered where I had seen that generator on the NorthWind machine.

It looks exactly like this one:

http://www.tc-net.co.kr/en/contents/prod/prod200_3.htm

(compared with NorthWind:)

http://www.northwindturbines.com/wind_turbine_specs.php

Those generators aren't built in China...

They're made in...

drumroll....

Korea.

By Tae-Chang CO -NET

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

Yes sir. I have 3k 400 RPM stand-a-lone units in stock.
NET is the best money can buy. I highly recommend them however they come with a price.

System2

Re: NorthWind Power info

I had the opportunity to look inside a "Windro" a few months ago, and I agree it's a novel idea - filling it with liquid. However I can only repeat what's been said before - enclosing the bearings inside a liquid-filled chamber makes reliability go down and service costs go up. The owner of the wind turbine cannot conduct annual maintenance, which should otherwise be routine, especially if he is a layman / homeowner. The dealer would have to be involved in any such maintenance and the cost to the owner goes up yet more. I live in Canada, latitude 51, and tomorrow the temperature will be -25C. Show me that the viscosity of your oil-filled generator won't prevent the turbine from turning.

Since you are "soliciting" comments from the forum, here I go (otherwise I wouldn't say anything). The blades are a confusing mix of home-builder tube cuttings and elaborate tip features which I can only assume are speed brakes. The noise emitted by such tip brakes is an obvious question - it would take some experience with the turbine to appreciate whether it's bothersome or not.

Blades that are so thin will be more flexible that others that have more "meat" in them. With a down-wind rotor this also may not be a problem. In fact twisting and flexing of the blades may provide some relief to the rotor loading in high wind conditions. On the other hand, flexing of 6061 aluminum is a terrifying notion. If Alcoa can screw up aluminum wind turbine blades, so can anyone else. (I'm referring to their experimental extruded blades in the '70's which suffered fatigue cracks).

There appears to be a single angle bracket attaching the turbine to the nacelle. The generator is hung on that angle and the rotor projects out farther from there. In aircraft design, that is a strict "no-no". The overhanging moment is constantly present, add to it the thrust load, and with a freely moving yaw bearing, there is a gyroscopic moment, too - ALL transferred through that one thin bar of metal. It's a single-point attachment for a dynamically loaded structure. We're looking for a safety factor of 8, and for a 3.3 meter rotor I doubt you have that much.

I want to direct you to the NREL "Independent Wind Turbine Testing Project", which may soon be soliciting manufacturers of wind turbines on the market and putting them "through their paces". They have a class 3 or 4 wind speed site in Colorado. The validation of your product that you seek can be found by passing those tests. Be warned though, the Windspire failed miserably during those tests, and the debris is documented on the internet for all to see.

I do not see costs on your website, I see only one installation in the photos, and there is no energy collection data from even one year to validate what we infer from the power curve. You are a little early in the market, when you haven't yet proven either the performance or the robustness of the product.

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

SparWeb wrote: »

I had the opportunity to look inside a "Windro" a few months ago, and I agree it's a novel idea - filling it with liquid. However I can only repeat what's been said before - enclosing the bearings inside a liquid-filled chamber makes reliability go down and service costs go up. I disagree with that statement. The bearings are in a constant bath to avoid ongoing maintenance. This is only one of the key advantages. The other is cooling at the other extreme.The owner of the wind turbine cannot conduct annual maintenance, No need.which should otherwise be routine, especially if he is a layman / homeowner. The dealer would have to be involved in any such maintenance and the cost to the owner goes up yet more. I live in Canada, latitude 51, and tomorrow the temperature will be -25C. Show me that the viscosity of your oil-filled generator won't prevent the turbine from turning. The video on the earlier post is at -20. No degradation in performance.

Since you are "soliciting" comments from the forum, here I go (otherwise I wouldn't say anything). The blades are a confusing mix of home-builder tube cuttings and elaborate tip features which I can only assume are speed brakes. The noise emitted by such tip brakes is an obvious question - it would take some experience with the turbine to appreciate whether it's bothersome or not. We have done extensive testing with the blade tips. We have first had experience with the outcome.

Blades that are so thin will be more flexible that others that have more "meat" in them. With a down-wind rotor this also may not be a problem. In fact twisting and flexing of the blades may provide some relief to the rotor loading in high wind conditions. On the other hand, flexing of 6061 aluminum is a terrifying notion. If Alcoa can screw up aluminum wind turbine blades, so can anyone else. (I'm referring to their experimental extruded blades in the '70's which suffered fatigue cracks).Composite blades are the kiss of death. I have a problem with extruded blades as well.

There appears to be a single angle bracket attaching the turbine to the nacelle. The generator is hung on that angle and the rotor projects out farther from there. In aircraft design, that is a strict "no-no". The overhanging moment is constantly present, add to it the thrust load, and with a freely moving yaw bearing, there is a gyroscopic moment, too - ALL transferred through that one thin bar of metal. Once again, I disagree with this. Aircraft wings and fuse are designed to flex. They fail when they do not flex. I do have some influence with aircraft design. It's a single-point attachment for a dynamically loaded structure. We're looking for a safety factor of 8, and for a 3.3 meter rotor I doubt you have that much.We are at a factor of 10:1

I want to direct you to the NREL "Independent Wind Turbine Testing Project", which may soon be soliciting manufacturers of wind turbines on the market and putting them "through their paces". They have a class 3 or 4 wind speed site in Colorado. The validation of your product that you seek can be found by passing those tests. Be warned though, the Windspire failed miserably during those tests, and the debris is documented on the internet for all to see. We will have a system at NREL. We have done some testing of our own that has allowed us to feel comfortable with our beta program. The NREL will be good for expanding the test.

I do not see costs on your website, I see only one installation in the photos, and there is no energy collection data from even one year to validate what we infer from the power curve. Like I have indicated before, I have large amounts of data, videos and photos. Also, I have realtime turbines online with power and windspeed data through the inverter. You will be able to log in and see this once I have the CPU protected from unwanted users.You are a little early in the market, when you haven't yet proven either the performance or the robustness of the product.

Many of us are early in the market. We live and die by the decisions we make in everything we do in life. Only time will tell. Hopefully guys like you will give us enough good information to fill in the blanks. I think you are doing just that.

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

As promised, here is another video.
The video is a i3Power 3KW mil installed on a 33' monopole. This is all the height the setback will allow. It is wide open to the west as you can see in the video.
This unit replaced some other brand of mil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQEHPCxq9wE

NorthWind Power Inc.

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

More video


i3Power NorthWind Power Wind Turbine install, 70' Tower, Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/user/perfx97#p/a/u/0/g7cP7qqXppg



i3Power NorthWind Power Wind Turbine install, 70' Tower, Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOGkM8HSRuU


Thanks again

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

i3Power install on 65' monopole. This is the tallest tower that is gin & hinged known to man. See the entire install.

i3Power 3KW NorthWind Power Wind Turbine, 65' Monopole Tower Part 1 of 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6vPgJlPYkw


i3Power 3KW NorthWind Power Wind Turbine, 65' Monopole Tower Part 2 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrgI6QyPyR8

Thanks!

BillF

Re: NorthWind Power info

The alternator looks similar to what these folks produce:

http://www.cleanenergytechnologies.net/residential_power.html

I hope you have good engineering data for the turbine/tower combos. At any rate you will have to submit the turbine to the SWCC for an independant analysis of power production and product longevity if you want to prosper in the future.

How did you get a permit to site the monopole so close to the residence and property line? It would take me a year of variance hearings and refilings to reduce the set back limits.

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

The alternator;
You can buy off the shelf or custom design of this product. We covered this in an earlier post.

The permit;
Every area is different. Some rural communities have very basic requirements. This customer had to get a signed note from the adjacent farmer.

The SWCC;
They will not accept applications until the start of the new year. You are not required to do this however it will help with acceptance.

Watt

Re: NorthWind Power info

BillF wrote: »

The alternator looks similar to what these folks produce:

http://www.cleanenergytechnologies.net/residential_power.html

I hope you have good engineering data for the turbine/tower combos. At any rate you will have to submit the turbine to the SWCC for an independant analysis of power production and product longevity if you want to prosper in the future.

How did you get a permit to site the monopole so close to the residence and property line? It would take me a year of variance hearings and refilings to reduce the set back limits.

Funny how the specifications show an operation temperature between 70* f to 140* f and earlier a -20* ( unsure of C or F ) was given for use? Do you( Powers ) change the fluid?

Makes you go hmmm.....

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

The units are tested from -25c to +60c.

peterako

Re: NorthWind Power info

Sorry for delaying response but work pressure is high.

The cooling is not yet clear to me.??

if you state that it is tested +60c that is to low.

i am living in Greece north east from Athens in a town Grammatiko i have a good wind site but the temp. in the summer is around 40c but metal objects in the sun heatup well above 60c . it is tipical that on hot summer days there is no wind from 10.00 to 13.00-14.00 then it coming up to 6-7 boufore.

I am sure that this counts for alot of areas world wide. my understanding is that in these case the unit is already overheated and then it starts running near top production and needs more cooling when there is only heat around it.

Please explain more about your liquid cooling.

Greetings from Greece

russ

Re: NorthWind Power info

'We will have a system at NREL. We have done some testing of our own that has allowed us to feel comfortable with our beta program. The NREL will be good for expanding the test. '

Sorry but 'in house tests' and NREL tests are two different things to me. The 'in house' one is meaningless and the NREL facility/report is the real thing. İn the NREL test everything gets reported - good and bad.

BillF

Re: NorthWind Power info

Yes the NREL tests are straight up. Just ask the Windspire VAWT folks. http://www.nrel.gov/wind/smallwind/mariah_power.html

I heard that they used an "independant" lab for their next testing.

It would be nice to get some "real world' info on the Windspire.

Watt

Re: NorthWind Power info

BillF wrote: »

Yes the NREL tests are straight up. Just ask the Windspire VAWT folks. http://www.nrel.gov/wind/smallwind/mariah_power.html

I heard that they used an "independant" lab for their next testing.

It would be nice to get some "real world' info on the Windspire.

This true.

Where can a person go to get real world info on the SkyStream 3.7?

russ

Re: NorthWind Power info

Search for SWWP Trinity Wind Test Project that was one great disaster and at a church - stiffing a church - real nice of them!

NREL has done testing on the Skystream but the results were never released. İ wonder why? Maybe Skystream won't allow it.

Data/information was released on turbines from various other manufacturers - see

http://www.nrel.gov/wind/smallwind/field_verification_project.html

BillF

Re: NorthWind Power info

Russ & Watt,

If I recall correctly, the problems with the Trinity church may be related to wire size issues namely undersizing of wiring which is causing a voltage rise at the turbine thus causing shut downs.

There are now facebook pages from folks posting their Skystream production numbers.

Here are some other sites:

http://loami-windmill.com/winddata.htm
http://www.eiec.org/wise_netmetering.html
http://blog.keepturning.com/ (scroll about halfway down)

Watt

Re: NorthWind Power info

russ wrote: »

Search for SWWP Trinity Wind Test Project that was one great disaster and at a church - stiffing a church - real nice of them!

NREL has done testing on the Skystream but the results were never released. İ wonder why? Maybe Skystream won't allow it.

Data/information was released on turbines from various other manufacturers - see

http://www.nrel.gov/wind/smallwind/field_verification_project.html

Very interesting report. Thank you.

Watt

Re: NorthWind Power info

Powers wrote: »

The units are tested from -25c to +60c.

18 months later, how are they holding up? I'm particularly interested in the blades. Thanks