KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

I purchased one of these from eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/8000W-Solar-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter-48V-220V-240V_W0QQitemZ110375311334QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Electronics_Parts_Accessories?hash=item110375311334&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50



this thing is dangerous IMO

Reading across the 2 'hot' legs gives 214 VAC

IMG_3784.jpg

Reading across from each hot leg to ground gives 121 to 134 VAC on one and 84 VAC on the other

IMG_3786.jpg


IMG_3785.jpg


I asked for it to be repaired or replaced -- they refused to do either

so I am now out $ 2500 with a useless fire hazard

I can't even bring myself to try and resell it on ebay because I would be concerned it will burn out someone's equipment

So I wiil do the next best thing

Warn others

Comments

  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    You need to put a small load on the output, like a 20 watt light bulb ... not saying that will fix it, but no load it might be in some search mode
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    wouldn't the high voltage input/output connections being so close to one another pose a risk not to mention on a connecting strip of that type? for myself i would want safer and more solid connections when dealing with 220vac.
  • WillWinstonWillWinston Solar Expert Posts: 45
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    I agree niel


    there are lots of problems with this unit

    this is a 8 KW unit too with a 16 kw temporary load capability (almost 80 A)

    I am thinking of donating it for a UL test LOL
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    Aside from the somewhat strange and imbalanced readings you're getting (which, like Solar Guppy says, might be resolved with a load), I'm not sure I really see a safety hazard here. Neither hot lead of a 2-phase output is going to be in common with ground. The terminal strip spacing is probably plenty adequate for 240v.

    Marc
  • WillWinstonWillWinston Solar Expert Posts: 45
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    I had planned to use both 120 qnd 220 appliances (which KIPIONT said was ok)

    the 84 VAC is a device killer
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    it's not listed as split-phase and the output seems within the spec of -8% listed if it's set at 220V
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    do try putting a load to it and remeasure the voltage before putting the inverter out to pasture.
    as to the connections i'm sure it'll probably easily take 1000v, but that's not my point. you are physically attaching large wires without restraint of movement that can result in that connection failing. remember this is an 8kw inverter. the spacing is from the standpoint of human error and coming into contact, not voltage breakdown.
  • WillWinstonWillWinston Solar Expert Posts: 45
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    The spec actually lists the unit for 'asymetric load' up to full rated power

    this is Taiwanese for split phase



    eta


    If you think this is Ok, it is for sale at $1500 -- you pay the shipping
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    niel,

    I think the assumption here is that you'd need to use a ring terminal to connect the wire to the block. I don't see a problem with that from an electrical or mechanical standpoint. Sure, you wouldn't want to fasten the bare end of an 8-gauge wire underneath those screws.

    Marc
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    i had the ring type in mind as that's what is usually appropriate for that strip. i feel if this is so good and safe then why isn't such connections appearing in service entrance boxes? #8 is pushing things without some kind of restraint as the wire and its ring, if done right, is stronger that the connection strip. i have seen them break.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    Hi Will,

    Sorry to hear of your problems with this inverter/charger.

    I am uncertain what country our are in, but looks to me as if this inveter was intended for only 220-240 VAC. Looks like you are taking readings between hot and Safety Ground (at least that is what we call that terminal on the left). In the USA, it would not be permitted to use the Safety Ground as a current-delivering terminal for a load. Am not an electrician, but this is my intrepretation of the codes here.

    Out of the USA, often it seems that loads are 220-240 VAC, supplied between the two hots, and 110-120 VAC loads are uncommon.

    Do try to place some load on the output terminals to see how it behaves.

    Another point is that I did not notice any reference to a Battery Temp. Sensor being supplied or an option. There is a reference to Temperature being displayed on the panel, but this could be the internal temp of the Inv/charger itself. A BTS is a very important item to have on inverters in this power class.

    If the inverter does really work at 215-234 Volt range, then a largish transformer could allow you to deliver some power to 110-120 VAC loads.

    Again, I am NOT an electrician, but this my intrepretation of power systems (especially international ones).

    Did the supplier state the reason that they would not fix/replace this unit ? That would be interesting. I assume that you are running this unit on 48 VDC nominal battery, without AC line in etc. The freight is the killer unless you are near the supplier. Good Luck, please let us know how this turns out. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    Niel,

    I would guess that service entrance doesn't use ring terminals for the same reason that backwiring of switches and receptacles is allowed -- ease of installation. Putting a ring terminal on a wire takes time. Much faster to just strip the wire and cinch it. Some applications, like welding, use ring terminals for extremely high currents. Battery interconnecting wires use them. I don't see a problem with it. The inverter in question probably uses a barrier-type block versus a cinch-type block because the former is cheaper.

    Marc
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    my problem isn't with the wire, but rather the barrier strip. i don't feel it would be up to snuff in this large of a capacity. i understand they are going for costs and i don't think it would matter as much for inverters that take smaller wires. just my opinion.
  • RoderickRoderick Solar Expert Posts: 253 ✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    From the advertisement, this sounds more like a UPS. The inputs are AC, and the outputs are AC. There is mention of a 48V battery charger, but still, no inputs for the DC of a solar panel.

    I suspect that both of the hot outputs of this UPS are floating with respect to ground. What you could do is connect an appliance (a travel-type hair dryer that runs off 220V would be good) from each hot to ground, and then measure the voltage across that. I suspect the voltage will drop to zero. If so, then the 84V or whatever that you read could just be a misleading reading from a very sensitive meter.
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    Roderick,

    The big black and red binding posts on the top left appear to be the DC input. My guess is that the "AC Input" is for a generator. Also, I don't think that 84v reading he's getting is going to drop to zero with a load (it shouldn't!).


    Will,

    I'm curious if you got the inverter working, or if the seller has agreed to help you / refund you. If not, make sure you file a dispute with eBay and leave appropriate feedback for the seller. PayPal also has some measures in place to protect buyers. Both of them have really cracked down on unscrupulous sellers since last year, so chances are good they'll be able to help you.

    Marc
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,991 admin
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    From Kipoint's website--If I got the correct unit--this appears to be a 230+/- volt output device.

    I would guess that the voltage you are measuring between the ground and the two terminals is just AC bypass capacitors (for emissions control).

    If you place a 120 VAC (cheap) filament light bulb from Ground to either output terminal (and leave the other terminal floating)--I believe you will get close to zero volts when measured with your DVM.

    The two outputs are, more or less, floating with respect to ground (which is what the third terminal is labeled) -- just slightly referenced to ground by the output filter capacitors (or other stray capacitance).

    If so--you can simply get a step down or auto-wound transformer to bring the output down to 120 VAC (if that is what you need).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • loreleclorelec Solar Expert Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    You might both be right. I looked at the manual through the link that Bill posted, and it actually does appear to be intended more as a UPS. The first sentence in the manual says "Warning! Please don't use generator as AC source." Whoops. It also looks like it could be single phase output, in which case an EMI filter might be referencing the outputs to ground at very high frequencies (MHz). Although since the AC Input is supposed to be connected to a mains source (which would be split phase), I would think the output would also be split, at least during "Normal Operation." Judging by the diagram on page 20, the inverter is completely bypassed when connected to AC mains. I wonder if the voltage readings would change any if Will connected some AC power to the input?

    Marc
  • MalasombraMalasombra Solar Expert Posts: 24
    Re: KIPOINT Inverters on eBay BAD

    Seems at first glance something close to a Sunny Island.
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