XW Pro Generator issue

Mtnsun

Hello all
I have 2 XW Pros off grid that were Commissioned in January of this year running firmware 2.04 build 29.
I have a 10kw diesel generator, the XW Pros will qualify the power and connect, but then the XWs will start to make a growling noise, there is also a growling noise in some of my electronics including my refrigerator, I have a ups for some electronics and it just disconnects from the power. 
The generator was outputting 60 Hertz and 240 volts. 
I was charging at around 5kw with around 1kw of loads so I was not overloading the generator, I did bring the charge rate down to around 2kw to see if that helps, the growling noise was lower but still there.
If I bypass the XWs and power everything directly from the generator there is no noises in my electronics and the ups stays connected. I also used this generator with my previous Magnum inverter with no problems.
I have a bigger diesel generator and it works fine with the XWP so I put it on the back burnersfor a while, I was happy to have my new system operational.
About a week ago I called Schneider tech support to see if they had any advice.  They took my insight Facility information so they could remotely check it out.
They emailed back to tell me to downgrade the firmware and see if the problem persists.
Has anyone else heard of a problem like this with firmware 2.04?
Thanks 

Dave Angelini

Posted more that several times on the forum not to update XWP FW unless you have a compelling reason.  Especially offgrid as almost FW is for Grid-tie

 When you did the firmware did you follow the commissioning guide exactly?

You need to follow the guide for reverting back also on factory defaults especially.

If you can please post the exact history of when the noise began. Thanks and good Luck!

Mtnsun

This was a new install, Schneider says to update to the newest available firmware at  install which was 2.04.
The noise started day 1 with a generator test. 

Mtnsun

Every step was followed in the Commissioning guide for the install 

Dave Angelini

I have been busy with your problem from solar companies and Electricians who dabble in this.

For some time around new years Schneider started telling people via Insight to update FW.  I screamed bloody murder at them as many offgrid folks did what they said. There are 4 mechanisms of failure for FW in this XWP update.

The first is many Offgrid do not know how to do an Inverter bypass. They have never tried it... 
When they do firmware for XW,  XW cycles power during firmware and can brick the XW during this process. Brick can be from unusable to non disclosed/inknown behavior.

The second mode is they do not follow instructions on reverting back to factory defaults.

The third is the old early firmware on XW did  not have a region code and when they update, they neglect to set it for offgrid (IEEE xxxx) One also needs the PW for this.

Any of the above or combination will result in bad/No operation of a good unit.

The  fourth is the new firmware 2.04 build 29.  I am not a big believer here as I have many clients running it on and offgrid.  I think the first 3 failure modes are the cause. I can't prove it and to be frank,
many who think this is a problem really do not have proof that it really is not from the first three.

Issue one has been around for 18 years and is common with any make inverter offgrid doing firmware.
Schneider warns you several time about this and people should get scared, but , they don't.

Just an FYI and I will repost as a topic when I have more time. 

Mtnsun

Thanks alot for the thorough breakdown, you are giving out information based on experience which really helps.
For number 1 the installer powered the insight facility with a wall plug from a different power source Instead of switching the breakers to bypass and running off the generator. Is this a acceptable method?

Dave Angelini

Yea too much experience on this one. Six of these in the new year so far.

I would say no/yes to your question. Schneider states to test the gen connection before attempting FW. Turn off XW and make sure that the critical devices are powered. Facility is powered by XWP and should stay on. Should means test it. The modem will get cycled if not powered by genset offgrid or another power source, and, TEST IT !

Your case of dual XWP is where most of these screw-ups are and it could be the 2.04 FW. I have 2 folks running it and they are fine.

Mtnsun

Did those 6 you mentioned have generator charging problems?
We're you able to reload firmware remotely to fix some of these situations?
I assume got paid to fix these systems, so thanks for the information 

Dave Angelini

I teach the client how to do what needs to be done. Not a fan of remote Firmware but it can be done if everyone is up to it. When fw is done wrong offgrid, it often messes up gen operation and inverting still works, thank the big guy. 

Good luck 🤞 

Mtnsun

I was browsing the Schneider website and found this note on the XW PRO page

Warning: There have been some corner cases where the XW Pro has experienced issues with excessive noise, such as unusually loud humming or buzzing when running some generators with v2.04 firmware. These conditions occur when charging with a generator and when the home loads are below a specific value. While this issue is not known to pose any safety issues, we advise caution and request that customers who use generators use XW Pro firmware v1.11.01 Build 0049 instead of upgrading to v2.04. Schneider Electric will be releasing a fix for this issue shortly.

https://solar.se.com/us/en/product/xw-pro-120-240v/

 It is summer here and i haven't used my generator in months, I haven't had the time to change Firmware to v1.11.01 yet but this seems to be something Schneider is working on.

Dave Angelini

Yes it has been a known issue since 2 winters back. I say 2 winters as I am counting this one when a whole bunch of people will need help.

Anyone living offgrid (who needs a Genny) should run their generator on a regular basis and know their system is performing.

 Why wait for Schneider? The essence of living offgrid is to be independent right?

Mtnsun

I downloaded these release notes in February which did not have the generator warning in it. At some point recently Schneider added the generator warning. It is nice that they are announcing this as a known issue.
This noise was difficult to figure out, I thought it could be a bad generator, or a configuration issue, 
I spent hours trying to troubleshoot this problem with my primary focus on the generator itself. Lucky for me I have 2 generators, 1 works fine and 1 doesn't play nice with the inverters.
Next I will change the firmware and see if anything changes.