Inverter does not recognize generator power

dougaholedougahole Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
I recently purchased a 4000 w 24 volt split phase inverter from Sungold Power. This inverter is identical to my AIMS 3000w inverter which I have no issues. I have a split solar array using two FlexMax 60 controllers and with two strings in series. Batteries, 12 Kyosonic Gel 450 ah (3 strings, 4 x 6 v in series for 24 volt)
The inverter is wired to the electrical panel as well as directly to the Honda 7000 inverter/generator.
For whatever reason, the inverter does not recognize the generator power. Can anyone shed any light on why this condition could exist. I have everything grounded properly but suspect that may be part of the problem but do not know how to resolve it. 

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,171 admin
    Have you measured the generator L1/N/L2 voltages? Have you measured the frequency... The inverter generators are usually dead on accurate... But the inverter control modules have been known to fail (not always zero output, but wrong voltage/frequency).

    I guess this the inverter?

    https://sungoldpower.com/products/4000w-peak-12000w-dc-24v-split-pure-sine-wave-inverter-with-charger

    Use a volt meter to make sure that the AC2 (generator/backup power input) is powered correctly (no mixed up L1/N/L2 connections)?

    There is a SW2 setup: 140V-270VAC/184V-253VAC (select by SW2)

    Looks like this unit needs 240 VAC (L1/L2) specifically--Cannot use 120 VAC input.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • MichaelKMichaelK Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭✭
    When you say it's not recognized, do you mean the inverter doesn't know the generator is there, or refuses to accept the power the generator is producing.  IE: does the inverter load up the generator, then drop it, or completely oblivious?

    In my case, my Schneider inverter would link to my generator, load it for a second or two, then drop it.  What I found was that the default input amperage for the charger function was 140A, which was far in excess of what my generator could output.  The inverter is looking at the QUALITY of the power being produced and was deciding it was not clean enough.  When I reconfigured the generator input to 10% (14A) the inverter would link to it and accept the generator's power.

    I would then incrementally increase the percentage a point or 2 up to about 37% (52A).  Above that the inverter would again drop the generator's input.  So, at above ~2600W the generator could not produce current clean enough to satisfy the inverter.
    15 Renogy 300w panels,  Midnight 200 CC, 8 Trojan L16 batteries, Schneider XW6848 NA inverter, AC-Delco 6000w gen.
  • dougaholedougahole Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Thanks for your response. The charger/inverter, Honda 7000, is not recognized. Typically, once the generator is booted up, the inverter recognizes the power and displays an amber LED indicating acceptance of the external power source. This inverter has a setting that the user can adjust the output current (0-100%). I do not know at this time if that setting may have been changed inadvertently as the installation is at the cottage and I am not there. I will check that out this weekend. Do you see this having an effect of rejecting the power? 
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the inverter to qualify the generator, it must
    1) be within the voltage range the inverter is looking for
    2) be within the frequency range (generally 3600RPM = 60Hz)
    3) be stable enough that the inverter qualifies it. If you hear the generator surging or hunting, that's not good
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12 #6
    How about neutral ground  bonding?  The Honda will most likely have a internal neutral bond, there should be only a single bonding point , if there are multiple points it could cause problems with qualification of the generator. Some inverter chargers will lift the neutral bond when transferred to auxillary AC source, others may not, consult the manual.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • dougaholedougahole Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Thanks for the info on the 'neutral ground bonding'. I will check the manual to see how to approach the wiring issue. If you know anything specific I would appreciate it.
  • RCinFLARCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭
    edited November 20 #8
    Grid interactive hybrid inverter-chargers match the AC freq, phase, and voltage before connecting to AC source,.

    Models that do not have two separate AC input option, grid and gen, often set their default allowable frequency lock range to grid specs of a couple of tenths of Hz around grid freq.

    Inverter-generator are usually pretty good for freq but may not be within grid spec freq range,.

    See if your inverter-charger has a AC input freq range setting and widen it out a bit.

    Another thing that is often an issue is stability of generaor freq.  Again inverter-gens rarely have an issue with this.  The inverter-charger will not tolerate a warbling AC line frequency.  Their lock tracking bandwidth is much tigher then their freq allowance spread.

    You did not mention any details of what you are seeing.  Does an LED indicate presence of input voltage?  Does it initially connect then quickly drop the generator?

    Leave ECO mode off on inverter-generator.  With ECO mode, sudden loads cause inverter-generators to dip in output voltage for a short period while engine speeds up which can cause inverter-charger to release from inverter-generator.

    If inverter-charger has 50Hz - 60Hz option make sure it is set to your grid/gen freq.

    Honda 7000 inverter-generator has two 120vac inverters operating with outputs of inverted phasing so neutral should be used with 240vac output.. 120vac loads on inverter-charger will create neutral current pass thru to generator.
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