Outback Power Misery

zozomike

OK this is miserable. In order to handle additional voltages due to switching out panels I “ upgraded” to two Outback FM100s from the comparatively robust FM80s I had, and all breakers, combiners etc. All was fine for month, then one of the FM100s began throwing ground fault errors. We spent way too much time  reworking the entire array in that controller. Call it array 1. After extensive testing my solar electrician determined the controller to be at fault. He began trying to obtain an RMA on 04/16/2020, after numerous promises and failures a replacement controller finally showed up 05/18/2020. Luckily, I discovered a stray screw ( of a size not used in the CC)  laying on the circuit board before ever powering it up. Poor QC I suspect. It was promptly installed on array 1. But while the unaffected controller on array 2 was in bulk, it showed the battery as full and never got out of float. Battery sense wires were hooked to that new controller, and seemed to help that issue, but it still barely charged, then went silent. Yes, it’s fuse is removed per Outback manual and the fuse in the working CC is good.

This 10 am The array 2 was reading on the Mate 3s, IN V=151.2 A= 8, OUT 27.2V 46A ( 24 volt setup)

As a test at 11a I disconnected array 2 PV inputs from the working FM100 and ran the PV inputs from array 1 to the working FM 100. ( to see if the array 1 was the fault) Readings are IN=162.5V 15A, OUT= 27.7V 81.3A

Unless you can think of some other test, I am thinking they sent another bad FM100?

BTW I am cross posting on Outback Power forum, and will backfeed any ideas.

Dave Angelini

Everything is networked right?  What does the system/controllers do with a 3kw load? 

zozomike

Yes Dave, all is networked through the Mate3s. Best I have seen is prox 2KW per array of 3 kw stc. Which is kind of disappointing, the panels are true south, but at latitude +  ( Im' @ 32 they are @40 degrees) so I guess spring/summer I cannot expect full sun on them. I am ordering a meter able to test current up to 400A. Could also be some sort of current leakage? I just physically switched the FM 100s. and the one that was on array 2 is now on 1 and went silent. but it is late in the day and the batts are @ 100% I will see whats up with that tomorrow. 

Dave Angelini

The reason you should do an AC load test of 3kw near noon is that you should be able to compare the arrays and chargers. Maybe you have done this and it is easy with a couple 1500 watt heaters. It also lets you watch how they do over a 30 minute or so test.

zozomike

Ok, I did a test a little goofy. That in a moment. On Outback forum Raysun suggested I physically stitch the FM100s. I did so the working FDM100 which was on array 2 was moved to array 1. and vice versa. And when the solar window came today the FM100 on Array 2, the replacement worked, and the always working FM100 now on array 1 was silent. So AGAIN, I spent the morning believing my array 1 or its path were faulty. I found nothing. Now for the goofy test. I jumpered the PV inputs both ways from FM100s. I immediately began to see full power from both FM100s. And they both charged all day till my batteries were at 100%. That is the 2nd time I have done that and the 2nd time it has worked. ???. The originals I got from our host in Feb. were FM100AFC. however the manual I had was for the original FM100s. There is a sensor coil on the AFCs which is supposed to surround the PV inputs. The manual I had did not include that. So that coil sat zip tied to the ground buss the way it came. I believe now having sat through a webinar that it is just to suppress the noise causing nuisance tripping of the Internal GFCI. The replacement Outback power sent does not have this coil. So now I have a system with an AFCI and one without. So I don't know...

Dave Angelini

Ouch!   So what does Outback say?    From my experience, I just have never thought the risk/ reward of AFCI is there for an average offgrid installation on the ground.   AFCI always sounds like a nice way to lose charging, and then all power offgrid. 

For offgrid AFCI seems like a solution looking for a problem.

I also have made easy money replacing AFCI circuits on grid inverters from SMA, Fronius and the other one I can't remember.

zozomike

Outback has not responded. And tech support no longer talks to owners. They have gone where the money is I reckon, and off grid is kind of an ugly stepchild. Ian of Outhback Tech does occasionally chime in on that forum. We will see if any ideas come in. I would counsel off gridders to avoid switching to the FM100. If using Outback stick with the more robust FM 80/60. I see the point about integration with rapid shut down codes. But it just seems too fragile and dependant upon networking 

Dave Angelini

I would call the store here where you bought them. They can deal with Outback. Offgrid may be a smaller portion of profit, but in no way would Outback want to lose that or get a bad name about their company. The amount of experience the installer has is often the real issue when things go south. This controller is not that new and I know of plenty of them out there.

 Not going to comment on Outback not talking with owners. They should be helpful on the user forum. Give them both some time also. Support almost never happens at the speed one would like. Lot's of new challenges in this world. Outback was going to move to Phoenix sometime soon I thought.

Good Luck!

zozomike

Yes Dave, I bought from our host here.  When I began having issues with one of the two I had bought, They said call Outback. I did, there message is " if you are an owner or end user, call your contractor"  I have a friend who is probably the most experienced installer/contractor/control person in the region. Understand my county is the size of some states, and has 2200 people, almost all in one town. ( and I am way away from that) He spent many hours analyzing the situation here, ( at normal cost, hehe) He got Outback to warranty the CC. But it took them 30 days 
Anyway you are correct about the forum. I was just hoping to get an understanding of this odd situation. 

Dave Angelini

My county was the largest in California.  Known as the mother of counties when Mariposa was a 1/3 of the state.

Where is home zozo? I probably your power guy. I was concerned when you said at first he was an electrician. Sounds like a good guy. Many of us communicate. Electricians often know very little about offgrid power systems let alone the correct use of AFCI and GFCI in a ground mount array.

You still have the old Fm80's for spares right.

zozomike

Yes Dave I have the old FM80s and my electrician, Mr. Toler has advised me to switch back, advice I may take. But we are in the central mountains of New Mexico. And yes he has done many installs and retrofits both on and off grid, has a million dollar project now for a big legal medicinals farm. He bailed out of project management in the robotics industry for this.
So not totally different background from yours I gather. This being kind of a remote area means I was lucky to find him.