SW4048 bulk charge voltage

fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
I've been trying to figure this simple (i thought) configuration change since i got my Volt battery modules. I see that the manual specify that bulk voltage could be set as low as 40.8 . I need it to be set around 48 v to support charging the batteries. When I try to do that I get a message that the  value is invalid. Lowest it accepts it is 57.2 . In the manual the only thing I can find is the following generic clause.
I have the battery type set to custom. Put the inverter in standby. Nothing seems to be working for me. According to the battery guy this is doable as his other customers are able to do this. Im running the latest firmware (3.11) . Thanks in advance for any insight into this.

Bulk Voltage-> Sets the bulk voltage for a custom battery type. See note below.

"NOTE: If a warning is received indicating that a setting is not accepted by the SCP, gradually increase the value of the setting until the SCP accepts it. This type of warning means that an internal minimum threshold value is being crossed and therefore the setting cannot be saved."


Comments

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019 #2
    What type of battery are you charging that wants only 48 volts in bulk/absorb? If flooded lead acid, you're very likely going to want  more than   57. 2. 

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    What type of battery are you charging that wants only 48 volts in bulk/absorb? If flooded lead acid, you're very likely going to want  more than   57. 2. 
    it is chevy volt module, 12S configuration.
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭✭
    Technology beyond my level of understanding.  I will continue to follow this thread.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know this gear at all, but what is the float voltage setting, and assuming there is one, the rebulk setting? 

    Just a WAG that it may not be the absolute value of the Vabs that 's causing the error, but maybe a relative value (eg throw exception if Vabs < Vfloat)?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Estragon said:
    I don't know this gear at all, but what is the float voltage setting, and assuming there is one, the rebulk setting? 

    Just a WAG that it may not be the absolute value of the Vabs that 's causing the error, but maybe a relative value (eg throw exception if Vabs < Vfloat)?
    Float can only be set to 50 V. According the the manual for the sw4048 it should be able to be set down to 44 V. I'm thinking that they have changed those minimums in one of the firmware release after the manual was written.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Possibly.  I can't think of a good reason to limit it in firmware post-production, but there's no rule saying it has to make sense to me.  OTOH, I wouldn't rule out another setting that lower limits Vabs and Vfloat (rebulk, LBCO, etc)..
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Estragon said:
    Possibly.  I can't think of a good reason to limit it in firmware post-production, but there's no rule saying it has to make sense to me.  OTOH, I wouldn't rule out another setting that lower limits Vabs and Vfloat (rebulk, LBCO, etc)..
    that is where my head is at as well. Especially that i'm told this can be done on the same hardware by others.
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019 #9

    Try running the SW at the lowest battery voltage you expect and see if it will regulate and not shut off due to low battery, LBCO.

    You might want to do this under load as well which will drop the battery voltage a wee bit more when it gets to a lower state of charge.


  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    boB said:

    Try running the SW at the lowest battery voltage you expect and see if it will regulate and not shut off due to low battery, LBCO.

    You might want to do this under load as well which will drop the battery voltage a wee bit more when it gets to a lower state of charge.


    There is no issue running the SW on those batteries. Runs like a champ down to 41.5 to 42 volts (i do not want to go any lower at this point).

    The only challenge is the chargin voltages . According to the manual and what others have been able to do I should be able to configure it for lower bulk voltage. That is not the case with my unit. So I'm trying to see if anyone can shed the light on this based o nthe knowledge and experience they have.
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019 #11
    What is the software revision of your SW ?     4.x something ?   Or earlier ?
  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    boB said:
    What is the software revision of your SW ?     4.x something ?   Or earlier ?
    latest 3.11 there is no 4.x as far I can tell.
  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Bumping the thread hoping someone can shed some light into this. Thanks
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    List what settings you have programmed please. Bulk absorb float and eq need to be in a logical range or you may not be able to change a setting. Also, is your SCP firmware good? The devices need to talk.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    List what settings you have programmed please. Bulk absorb float and eq need to be in a logical range or you may not be able to change a setting. Also, is your SCP firmware good? The devices need to talk.
    Thanks Dave,
    I'm running latest firmware on all devices. I do not have SCP on this system, just combox. All changes are being done by combox. MPPT settings are working perfectly, i;m pretty much using solar to keep the battery charged.

    I would like to have the SW be able to charge it when voltage drops due to bad weather ,etc.

    Those are the lowest values I can set for voltages. I have tried settings in standby mode as well.
    The SW is configured as follows:

    Custom Battery Type Selected

    Charger settings

    Maximum Bulk Charge Current     45A
    Maximum Absorption Charge Current     45A
    Maximum Float Charge Current     45A
    Charge Cycle    2 stage
    Default Battery Temperature     Warm
    Recharge Voltage    44 V
    Absorption Time    5 min

    Custom Battery Settings

    Equalize Support     Not allowed
    Equalize Voltage Set Point     54V
    Bulk/Boost Voltage Set Point     57.6V
    Absorption Voltage Set Point     48.3V
    Float Voltage Set Point     50V
    Battery Temperature Coefficient     0mV/ºC
    Maximum Discharge Current     100%
    Maximum Discharge Time Interval     10s

    THanks for help and Merry XMass all!
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These are weird numbers below as a group and may be your problem. Typically bulk and absorb are not that far apart and would usually be higher than float. Are you saying the mppt is programed like this?

    Bulk/Boost Voltage Set Point     57.6V
    Absorption Voltage Set Point     48.3V
    Float Voltage Set Point     50V
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    These are weird numbers below as a group and may be your problem. Typically bulk and absorb are not that far apart and would usually be higher than float. Are you saying the mppt is programed like this?

    Bulk/Boost Voltage Set Point     57.6V
    Absorption Voltage Set Point     48.3V
    Float Voltage Set Point     50V

    Thanks for the response Dave,

    Just to clarify the settings provided were for the CSW, the bulk charge is the one I'm would like to take down to 49 - 50 volts. It won't let me even thought the manual states I can set them lower.

    The MPPT settings are working great and are as follows:

    Bulk/Boost Voltage Set Point     49V
    Absorption Voltage Set Point     48.5V
    Float Voltage Set Point     49V

    I wish I could replicate them on the CSW4048.

    Thanks
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First thing is you could have a bad csw. Second you are using combox correctly, right. You can program the mppt thru combox.
    third is this new equipment? You do have warranty for 2 years in NA.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try setting charge on csw to 3 stage also. good luck
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    First thing is you could have a bad csw. Second you are using combox correctly, right. You can program the mppt thru combox.
    third is this new equipment? You do have warranty for 2 years in NA.

    Yes it is all new equipment. So warranty is there. I don't think there is a fault with it. Just want to know if it is a matter of configuration or event possibility at all. .
  • fasterskiifasterskii Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Try setting charge on csw to 3 stage also. good luck

    Tried this just now. No cigar :(
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2019 #22
    You mentioned "Combox"...   Is this the old Trace Engineering/Xantrex SW4024 or a Schneider SW ?

    If it is the Trace/Xantrex white inverter, then 3.x version is very old and might be why the manual is different.

    Either way, something you might try as far as charge voltage set point is to plug in a battery temperature sensor with trim-pot resistor and adjust it up or down ?  The Trace SW used a nominal 100K Ohm resistor at 25 degrees C.


  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No it is the CSW from Schneider.
     If I was the OP here the last thing I would try before warranty is to do a complete DC shutdown for 5 minutes. Reboot and try. If still no go, I would get into CSW on combox and reset it to factory defaults.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭
    Wish they did not use the same model number as the old stuff !
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe they want it to be the Mustang of inverters  :)
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yea make it easy for the old guys ;)  I am missing the mustang part? Getting too old....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Mustang (car) has iterated through radically different (IMHO) versions over the years, but with the same name.  Apparently there's soon to be an electric version too.

    Old enough to remember them stuffing a v8 into a glorified Pinto  ;)
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK I get your point.

     I would rather stuff a hemi in a challenger though. Ever see the movie Vanishing point? I first saw it at a drive-in movie so definitely in the same age range. The USMCA went through so Canada won't be making my whiskey price change and that is a happy new year thought !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    boB said:
    Wish they did not use the same model number as the old stuff !
    Completely agree,   boB.
    BUT,  the older Trace and Xantrex inverter/chargers were so tough,   reliable,  and had such surge grunt,   that,  perhaps this confusion is what Schneider wanted.

    A number of neighbors are still running Trace (or Xantrex) inverters that are 15 - 20,  or more years old  --  still running just fine.   The SW Plus 5548s in use here,  are all in their fifteenth year of 24/7/365 service (knock on wood),  and still running fine,  THANKS!

    Am not a great fan of Schneider,   the company,   but,   some of their products might be OK.

    FWIW,   Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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