Should you DIY a Solar Installation

cow_rancher

It appears that Mother Earth News thinks the Solar installation industry does not add much to the cost of a solar system.
What are your thoughts?

https://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/diy-solar-with-a-solar-panel-kit-zbcz1601

10%    Really?

Rancher

Estragon

That article really doesn't say much at all.  10% might be about right if I bought panels etc at a box store vs getting something installed, but it's really apples and oranges.  I saw $3/watt on sale at Canadian Tire recently.

cow_rancher

Tire stores install Solar Systems?

Rancher

mcgivor

They do sell tires but are actually stores like Target and Walmart, with an automotive shop attached.

Estragon

Home Depot also sells pv online.  $514CAD for a 150w panel.  $2770CAD for a 400w DIY kit.  Like CT, they don't install and mainly sell small 12v systems.  At those prices, installed prices from a solar specialist are likely close, but it's apples and oranges. 

I priced out gear locally from a specialist when I did my system about 3 years ago.  It was  nearly double (not including labour) versus what I paid NAWS.  CAD/USD is lower now, so I expect it's still roughly the same.  On top of the extra cost for the local specialist, I wouldn't have had to do all the reading and planning I did, so there would probably also have been the cost of murdering at least one battery bank in the learning curve.

Dave Angelini

The local brick and mortar solar business is over twice my price. I unfairly compete as I teach the user how to install by text or e-mail Outback or Schneider.

They do a great job of going to these remote rural locations and doing the work. They are great for people who do not have basic handyman skills. I require that and pass on the bid to them. They have alot of stock and a wharehouse. I have few spare 24 and 48v inverters and a cc or two. My stock all comes from two of the largest warehouses in the Americas.  I don't change the price but rather charge a flat fee anywhere in the world.

I am what the financial guys call critical mass. I like the work and the people, but if they get weird, I go outside and enjoy my life offgrid!
Plenty to do here for 25 years now 

oil pan 4

That mother earth article could be accurate if you used $10 to $20 per watt panels prices.
Only then could the install price be considered insignificant.

What I have found is the installers mark up the hardware to almost double it's original cost, then double that number again to install it.

stmoloud

Estragon said:

Home Depot also sells pv online.  $514CAD for a 150w panel.  $2770CAD for a 400w DIY kit.  Like CT, they don't install and mainly sell small 12v systems.  At those prices, installed prices from a solar specialist are likely close, but it's apples and oranges. 

I priced out gear locally from a specialist when I did my system about 3 years ago.  It was  nearly double (not including labour) versus what I paid NAWS.  CAD/USD is lower now, so I expect it's still roughly the same.  On top of the extra cost for the local specialist, I wouldn't have had to do all the reading and planning I did, so there would probably also have been the cost of murdering at least one battery bank in the learning curve.

The reading and planning is worth it though. If you are moderately sensible and practical, you don't need to leave yourself open to being ripped off by the 'experts'

BoFuller

I did my initial system (12V with 2 batteries and 3 panels) on my travel trailer that I was living in while building my log home. I felt comfortable enough from what I learned from here and from that install to attempt my bigger system, but time constraints changed things. Due to permit deadlines, I decided to sub out solar setup and plumbing. I had already purchased my panels and worked with a local guy who I felt did a good job for a reasonable price.
I think DIY is the way to go if you are mechanically inclined to do it. 

softdown

Absent a consulting guru like DA, I see three qualifiers for the real do-it-yourselfer to do a real solar system:
1) Have a background working with wiring.
2) Have a background in building stuff.
3) Have a lot of time to do some reading then a lot of time to spend at a place like this. 

I'd say 90% should hire it out. My years here and personal experience is that almost everybody makes gigantic mistakes with their installation. Like the guy I sold a 1500 inverter to. He used the biggest 90's era refrigerator he could find for free. You know the rest of that story. Then he ignored two offers to look at his system. Instead deferring to his electrician friend. Being an electrician doesn't make one a solar consultant. Being a guy - I'm sure he thought he was.

JRHill

Mike134

You'll notice all the solar module connections are designed for a trained monkey to plug together.  As far as a DIY solar install on a roof 2 biggest requirements are enough knowledge not to fall off the roof and #2 find the roof joists so you can properly mount the rails. Everything else on a roof is plug and play and tighten nuts and bolts.
When you get to connecting them to the rest of the equipment, you'll notice that is always different crew/person that has enough electrical knowledge  to make the connections.

JRHill

Then there is wire sizing and best practices for connections, hardware and safety, even codes as Mike suggested, if they apply in the area and for insurance. But a really big gotcha for many is tuning for the type of battery. Research, reading and understanding tech manuals and specifications is huge.

Mike134

cow_rancher said:

It appears that Mother Earth News thinks the Solar installation industry does not add much to the cost of a solar system.
What are your thoughts?

https://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/diy-solar-with-a-solar-panel-kit-zbcz1601

10%    Really?

Rancher

DIY my costs look to be $9671 or $1.33/W. That's everything, drawings, permits, engineering, materials, yada yada yada. I've received online rough guess numbers between  $2.60/W up to $3.46/W.  Safe to say having someone install it adds a bit more than 10%

DDonger43

Jeesh, I wouldn't want to DIY install a big solar array. It would be cool to try, but I'd really want some more experience first...

Photowhit

DDonger43 said:

Jeesh, I wouldn't want to DIY install a big solar array. It would be cool to try, but I'd really want some more experience first...

It really is very straight forward.

JRHill

Until that little thing happens that you haven't learned yet.

MJSullivan56

It took me 6 months of research/planning and 12 months installing. After a total of 18 months it finally  passed inspection and I’ve been tweaking/refining the settings ever since. I saved some money and had to make lots of mid-project changes but more importantly I learned a lot and now know every little detail of my system. However, DIY is not for the impatient nor for those who don’t like to solve complex puzzles.

JRHill

Uninvited I get a feed from an RV forum. All the water tank problems and leaks and hydraulics for the side stuff, yeh. But what is really depressing are the folks trying to do a few cheap panels on their RV. If they don't blow off thith some part of the roof or cause major leaks there are the dead battery issues. Dead tow vehicle batteries. On and on. Many of these folks shouldn't do anything more than a black to black, red to red connection from a Walmart charger but they ask really deep questions including programming and voltages. And the RV dealerships? Hah, not much better. Many can't figure out why not to pull the RV plug from the tow vehicle.

Sometimes this happens in the solar forums. Flick the switch and all will work just like in the city. 

WebPower

There are plenty of guidance websites out there to help you. As long as you're handy it's not too hard. The biggest issue to resolve is the transition from the roof for rooftop installations. That's the one thing that will bite you if you don't do it right. Some states don't allow you to do your own electrical work. That's the other thing you need to know before you venture into DIY.

If you grid tie don't expect to make money. Design so you are producing not much more than using. With surpluses that put my meter negative, I have about 3 months where I have an electric bill. I don't have batteries. I might do a simple backup system for essential loads, but that won't allow for any solar production when the grid is down since I have IQ7s.i installed for less than about 14K, with tax break was dropping to 30% less of that. I'm sure an installer would have been 30K, about triple my end cost. 

softdown

Photowhit said:

DDonger43 said:

Jeesh, I wouldn't want to DIY install a big solar array. It would be cool to try, but I'd really want some more experience first...

It really is very straight forward.

Everything is straight forward with knowledge and having done it at least once before. 

solartrout

If it was me doing this, I'd do a ground mount. Rooftop is too dangerous for old people like me. I'd kill myself trying to mount panels on a roof.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (thud)

Miller_Ranch

12 .6 KW   DIY

JRHill

Miller_Ranch said:

12 .6 KW   DYI

You have reason to smile. would you describe more of the components that you selected for the project?

Dave Angelini

Looks like a Wattsun horizontal  tracker. Possibly a fixed mount with a zero to 60 degree tilt with a screwdriver. They use to sell them in the store here.  

Nice job Mr. Miller 😉

Miller_Ranch

Thank you and thank you,

You are correct Dave, the mounts are Wattsun manual trackers oriented East to West. I have 4 strings of 7 REC 450 watt panels in series for a total of 28. They feed directly into a Sol-Ark 12k. The 12k has four inputs so i did not need combiner boxes. The 12k also has the solar disconnect mounted on it too. Sol-Ark has a nice string sizing tool on there web site that made panel configuration easy.

I am totally off the grid so batteries are part of my system. I have 5 Powersync 51.2v 100ah batteries in closed loop with the Sol-Ark. As Dave has said many times closed loop is the way to go. I couldn't be happier with this set up.

Also Sol-Ark and Powersync customer support has been great, had a few glitches when I first commissioned the system but were sorted out quickly.

Miller_Ranch

Didn't mean to close this conversation down. I know its about DIY.

Hope this can stay open about those of us that that want to go this route. 

Dave Angelini

Why would it close? This forum is all about DIY. Everyone starts somewhere😉

BB.

Only thing I suggest--Start a new thread to discuss/review/ask questions about your system if we get into detailed discussions about your setup.

-Bill

JRHill

Miller_Ranch said:

Didn't mean to close this conversation down. I know its about DIY.

Hope this can stay open about those of us that that want to go this route. 

I was confused too. My hat is off to Miller_Ranch. All I can say is doing a great job with the selected equipment and install the journey is just beginning. Then you have to tune it to your situation. I'd hike to know more about his day to day adjustments and what he learned. He could write a book.

Edit: "I'd hike to know more" was a typo. But appropriate.

rosellepurr

Miller_Ranch said:

12 .6 KW   DIY

Amazing! Awesome job, Mr. Miller.