First Post - ROLLS AGM S6-275

jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
Hello

Am I ever glad I found you! The last of my natural hair color is quickly turning grey. I did a search for "rolls battery forums" and the Wind & Sun site came up.

I'm in the process of building a 1.0Kw - 1.56Kw solar system for our new RV.  A 27' travel trailer.  I am very familiar with DC wiring but not so familiar with DC Systems.

A month ago we bought 2 Rolls 6V S6-275 AGM (250Ah) batteries with plans to add 2 more . The charger is a Pronautic 50 amp set to charge (Rolls specs) 14.8V bulk and 13.8V float at 70 degrees F.

We been having issues with the capacity so we started to isolate any ghost loads. All we have been able to find is 1 amp draw from the propane sniffer and the CO2 detector. Not understanding how 1amp could drop the voltage from 12.6 to 12.3 on 250Ah over 18 hours we called Rolls.
  
Rolls said that since we haven't connected the temperature sensor the batteries have never been fully charged and are now sulfated. We explained to no avail that when the ambient temp. was 70F when we set the charge voltages accordingly.

The next day we pulled the charger and batteries out of the trailer and connected the temp sensor.  With the temp sensor connected bulk charge went from 14.8V to 14.9V  and float went from 13.8V to 13.9V.  After 3 1/2 hours the charger was disconnected when the charge rate was 13.9V @ 0.5amps.  After 5 min the voltage was 13.0V.  After 13 hours the voltage was 12.6.  At this point a 12 amp load (30" LED light bar) was placed on the batteries. The voltage under load dropped to 12.3V. One hour later the voltage was 12.2. Three hours later the voltage was 12.1V and the light bar was disconnected.

We called Rolls again. This time they said in order to reach full capacity the batteries have to be charged at 15.2V bulk and 14.1 float. These are the approx setting for 34 degrees F.

This morning we changed the setting to 15.2 and 14.1 and we let the charger run for 6 hour. It was disconnected at 14.1V @ 0.5 amps
.....after 5 minutes voltage was back to 13.0V

We'll do the LED light bar test again in the morning.......but........at this point we think Rolls is blowing smoke and we should send the batteries back and no longer deal with them.

Any thoughts?

Thank You
John
«1

Comments

  • DConlyGuyDConlyGuy Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭
    edited June 2016 #2
    that 1 amp draw could be killing your battery's. remember on most battery's you can only use 50% of the battery's capacity, so think of it this way that ghost load is costing you 24 amps a day and those led lights for 4 hours is costing you 48 amps. your getting close to to the 50% mark there with out anything else added to it. wanted to also know if the led is ac or dc, if it 12 amps at 120 volts and running it thru a inverter, then there a big reason why your battery's are going poof so fast
    600 watts of solar panels,Epever 30 mppt , 2 PWHR12500W4FR battery's in 24 volt setup
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited June 2016 #3
    DConlyGuy said:
    that 1 amp draw could be killing your battery's. remember on most battery's you can only use 50% of the battery's capacity, so think of it this way that ghost load is costing you 24 amps a day and those led lights for 4 hours is costing you 48 amps. your getting close to to the 50% mark there with out anything else added to it. 

    Yes that was my initial thought but the voltage drop from 12.6 to 12.3  happens in 12 hours.  Power to lights, pumps, fridge, heater are all disconnected.
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    DConlyGuy said:

    . wanted to also know if the led is ac or dc, if it 12 amps at 120 volts and running it thru a inverter, then there a big reason why your battery's are going poof so fast
    No inverter. Loads are 12V DC
  • tabbycattabbycat Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭✭
    Try an IR temperature sensor to see if one cell is hotter than the rest. This is mentioned in the Rolls battery manual.
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    tabbycat said:
    Try an IR temperature sensor to see if one cell is hotter than the rest. This is mentioned in the Rolls battery manual.No
    Great idea, thank you!!.. .Batteries will only take 50amp for 10min so that may not generate enough heat but worth a try.

    When I spoke with Roll I was looking for problem solving suggestion and this was never mentioned.. Far as Rolls is concerned the batteries have never been fully charged and thus sulfated  from then on they stopped trying problem solve.

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,911 admin
    Note that a Lead Acid Battery is "full" when resting at 12.7 volts... Above that voltage, the battery is "charging". Below that voltage, it is "discharging".

    Especially with AGMs, they have higher resting voltages when first disconnected from a battery charger (13.0 volts or higher). But, that "surface" charge will quickly drop down to 12.7 volts (or so)... And then should fall slowly after than (depending on lots of factors, loads, battery capacity, temperatures, age of battery, any "issues" with batteries, etc.).

    AGM batteries can be a "difficult animal" to manage. For Lead Acid batteries, the Specific Gravity measurements of each cell, are the "gold standard" for determining state of charge and how well they are being treated (properly charged, not over discharged, etc.). However, with AGM and other sealed batteries, you do not access to the electrolyte, so you cannot make those measurements. And voltage measurements of groups of cells, can be problematic to interpret.

    You got 2x 6 volt cells in series on a 12 volt battery bus. That is "helpful" because you can, at least, compare how the two batteries are performing by measuring the voltage across each 6 volt battery (ideally, we would be measuring the voltage across each cell, but modern batteries make per cell voltage measurements pretty much impossible).

    Many times, a battery's problems is caused by the failure of one cell... So, by measuring the 6 volt battery voltage over time and current (charging, discharging), you may find that the batteries have almost identical voltages, or you may find one battery with much higher voltage (during charging) and much lower voltage (during discharging)--That could indicate a weak or failed cell. (cells can fail open or shorted or have "less capacity" than the rest of the cells).

    Unless you took the batteries "dead (well below ~11.5 to 12.0 or to 10.5 volts--which is "truly dead") and let them sit for days/weeks without recharging--I would be surprised if you "sulfated them"--That usually takes weeks of setting at partial charge (less than 75% of charge) without charging/cycling. (note, I am not a battery engineer--And I am making guesses from your writings here).

    Also--For AGM batteries, in general, they usually are not charged >~14.4 volts at ~70F... If you charge AGM batteries >>14.4 volts, they tend to "gas" (generate hydrogen and oxygen). That can cause the batteries to vent (not a good thing, lose of gasses/electrolyte is permanent and eventually will kill AGM batteries). Also, high voltage+high(er) charging current cause the batteries to run "hot" (fully charged batteries turn excess charging current into hydrogen+oxygen+heat, and the recombination of hydrogen+oxygen back into water via catalyst also generates heat). Taking a lead acid battery >115 to 120F+ is not good. (keeping batteries hot also ages them quicker--For every 10C increase in temperature, batteries will have 1/2 the life). Note that pumping ~2.5% or higher rate of charge into a "full battery" can easily overheat the battery.

    For AGMs, monitoring the charging current (at a "reasonable" charging current) will tell you when they are fully charged... Most of the time, when the charging current falls below 1% to 0.1% of current, the battery is "fully" charged (tail of the charging cycle).

    I am not a battery engineer, and I do not work for Rolls.. But, you are correct, it appears that Rolls has "realtively high" charge voltage set points for their AGM batteries.

    http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/4345-agm-charging

    As long as you monitor your battery bank temperature (IR thermometer for quick checks, wire in a "remote temperature gauge" for permanent monitoring may be nice)--That will help you have a longer battery life too.

    In general, for longer battery life, we suggest not discharging (very often) below ~50% state of charge (50% of 250 AH is 125 AH). And never below 20% state of charge (battery/cell damage can occur).

    A 1 amp ghost load can be a killer--That is 24 AH per day (assuming no charging current)--Or to 50% in ~5 days with no other loads, and 10 days without charging, to dead.

    Assuming you have not done any of the "bad things" (take battery dead, let sit for days/weeks/months at less than 75% state of charge, overheated battery, over charged battery, etc.)--I would look very closely how the two 6 volt batteries respond to loads and charging currents. If one battery is "significantly different" than the other--I would suspect the battery with the "wider voltage swing" has issues (bad cell?).

    The are other possible issues--If the two batteries were not fully charged when installed (but one battery was fully charged and the other at 50% state of charge--AGM batteries do not "equalize well/quickly" and each battery should be recharged on a 6 volt charger until both are fully charged). If you measure the voltage across each voltage before you installed them--That resting voltage can help estimate their initial state of charge). Ideally, you want both batteries to have near identical voltage before you install them in a series.

    If the batteries both behave identically during loads/charging -- Then either both are bad, or something was done to them somewhere/somehow that killed.

    I would suggest that if you cannot get any help/resolution from Rolls, your next set of batteries be a pair (or two pair) of 6 volt flooded cell golf cart batteries. They are much easier to monitor (hydrometer) and much more forgiving than AGMs. But you do have to check water levels once per month and keep them clean and the box vented--AGMs are "much cleaner". Once you get your system working with the "cheap" batteries for a year or so--Then AGM may be the next step (or other chemistry).

    If you do not have one yet, a battery monitor can be helpful. However, I am not sure it would have helped with your situation.

    Unknown battery problems are a huge pain. In some cases, it is the mfg's problem--in some cases, and many others, it is probably a customer caused issue... And it can be difficult to figure which it which.

    Good luck,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,911 admin
    And some light reading:

    http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
    http://www.batteryfaq.org/
    http://batteryuniversity.com/

    After reading all of the above--You will probably conclude that batteries "don't work" (I did). But they do work pretty well when you stay inside the painted lines.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi John,

    Was unable to find a Manual,  or even detailed specs for your Charger,  which is an unknown to me.

    The Reference temperature for Rolls AGM batteries IS 77F  (25C),  this 70 F in your posts may have been a TYPO.

    Would guess that Rolls  (Surrette)  was not saying that you should always use those high voltage settings,  but just to try to fully-charge the batteries,  and then revert to the standard charge specs.

    If you have a good quality DMM,  you should check the charge and Float voltages at the battery terminals to confirm the accuracy of whatever is the device that you have been using as a voltmeter.

    Also,  when mentioning voltage measurements,  knowing the temperature of the battery when those measurements were taken would help.

    Your charger may not have the ability to set the proper Temperature Compensation value,  but for your Surrettes,  this should be --4 mV/cell/C,  or,  -- 24 mV per degree C for the entire 6-cell bank.

    Would also suggest that you carefully consider just what Solar Charge Controller that you choose,  as you will probably want to be able to set actual Absorb and Float voltages,  rather than needing to use canned profiles,  selected by switches.   Also having the Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS/RTS)  that can be attached to the battery  will help keep our AGMs happier.

    Possibly,  your shorecharger has all of these capabilities,  but the "Specs"  are very,  very terse from what was available on the net,  is some quick searches ...  will look further.

    And,  if you are running a fridge a fridge entirely off of 12 VDC,  these can be very power-hungry,  as you probably know.

    FWIW,  Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Thank you for taking the time to put all the into in writing Bill.  It is appreciated.

      We hoped to keep the batteries for 8-10 year so we've been very careful to make sure the batteries never fell below 12.1V. We bought a programmable charger so the charge parameters can be set to the manufactures specs. The batteries where installed April 21, 2016 and have been charged less than 15 times since then.

    All the help I received from Steve (who is the head tech) at Rolls was to tell me the batteries are sulfated because I did not use a  temp sensor and a the charge voltage is too low.  I told him the charge voltage was 14.8V when the temp. was 70 degree F but Steve said the charge voltage has to be 15.2V.  I told him the Rolls manual states [email protected] and that I would only change the parameters if he sent me an email confirming the numbers. I was looking for some problem solving help and wasn't getting any. We started to argue I told him he didn't know what he was doing and hung up.

    This is part of the email I received a few days later.

    Until the charging parameters are set correctly to 2.45 volts per cell (15 volts) at absorption these batteries will never reach a full charge.


    Yesterday we charged the batteries (using the temp sensor) for 6 hours @ 15.2V bulk and 14.1 float.  Five minutes after disconnecting the charger the voltage was 13.0V
    This 7:15AM this morning the resting voltage was 12.82V.
    The 12amp light bar was connected (nothing else connected to the batteries) and the voltage dropped to 12.33V.
    1 hour later the voltage was 12.32V
    2 hours later the voltage was 12.25V
    3 hours later the voltage was 12.16V
    3 1/2 hours later the voltage was 12.09V - the light bar was disconnected
    4 1/2 hours later with no load on the batteries the voltage was 12.32V














  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭


    Was unable to find a Manual,  or even detailed specs for your Charger,  which is an unknown to me.

    http://www.promariner.com/en/63150



    The Reference temperature for Rolls AGM batteries IS 77F  (25C),  this 70 F in your posts may have been a TYPO.


    When I called Rolls in April they told me to used the AGM charging specs below and set the charging specs. accordingly.

    http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/4345-agm-charging


    Would guess that Rolls (Surrette) was not saying that you should always use those high voltage settings,  but just to try to fully-charge the batteries,  and then revert to the standard charge specs.

    I been told to set it at 15.2V bulk and 14.1 float and leave it there.

    My comment at the time was that these close to the setting for 0F. 


    If you have a good quality DMM,  you should check the charge and Float voltages at the battery terminals to confirm the accuracy of whatever is the device that you have been using as a voltmeter.

    Sorry what is a DDM? I've used 3 different volt meters to check double check things.



    Also,  when mentioning voltage measurements,  knowing the temperature of the battery when those measurements were taken would help.

    The batteries are sitting out in the open on the bench. The ambient temp here is 60F.



    Your charger may not have the ability to set the proper Temperature Compensation value,  but for your Surrettes,  this should be --4 mV/cell/C,  or,  -- 24 mV per degree C for the entire 6-cell bank.

    No way to set the temp on the charger....any suggestion on a better charger : )



    Would also suggest that you carefully consider just what Solar Charge Controller that you choose,  as you will probably want to be able to set actual Absorb and Float voltages,  rather than needing to use canned profiles,  selected by switches.   Also having the Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS/RTS)  that can be attached to the battery  will help keep our AGMs happier.

    Once I resolve the battery issue I will be buying a Midnight Classic 150 with the Whizbang Jr.


    Possibly,  your shorecharger has all of these capabilities,  but the "Specs"  are very,  very terse from what was available on the net,  is some quick searches ...  will look further.



    And,  if you are running a fridge a fridge entirely off of 12 VDC,  these can be very power-hungry,  as you probably know.

    There is no 12V on the fridge just 120v and propane but in saying that it draws 1/2amp when it is running on propane. For testing before we pulled the batteries out it was turned off.

    Take Care

    John






  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi John,

    Have you looked at the Link that BB Bill provided in Post number ...  err whoops,  I mean his post of 8:52 AM June 24?
    Here it is again:
    http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/4345-agm-charging

    The reference temperature is really 77 degrees F  --  25 C.

    Do you have a Link to the detailed specs,  and Owner's (User) Manual for your present Charger?   It would be useful for any of those trying to render some help.

    Generally AGM batteries have shorter lives in Cyclic use than do Flooded batteries.  AND,  the life of batteries in most RVs can be quite short,  especially when exposed to high temperatures for extended periods.

    FWIW.  Steve at Surrette Battery has worked in the Solar industry for a long time,  having been at Outback Power for a number of years.   He has made significant improvements to the Surrette Documentation,  and Tech Support.   Hope that you will be able to let him help you ...   Thanks,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • WaterWheelWaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭✭
    jtbuilds said:
    Yesterday we charged the batteries (using the temp sensor) for 6 hours @ 15.2V bulk and 14.1 float.  Five minutes after disconnecting the charger the voltage was 13.0V
    This 7:15AM this morning the resting voltage was 12.82V.
    The 12amp light bar was connected (nothing else connected to the batteries) and the voltage dropped to 12.33V.
    1 hour later the voltage was 12.32V
    2 hours later the voltage was 12.25V
    3 hours later the voltage was 12.16V
    3 1/2 hours later the voltage was 12.09V - the light bar was disconnected
    4 1/2 hours later with no load on the batteries the voltage was 12.32V














    John,    Just to cover all the bases put your multi-meter's amp gauge between the battery pos and the lamp bar power lead.      Keep it right at the battery end of the wire.     It will only take 10 minutes and you never know, there could be a small short somewhere increasing your load.

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Vic said:

    Hi John,

    Have you looked at the Link that BB Bill provided in Post number ...  err whoops,  I mean his post of 8:52 AM June 24?
    Here it is again:
    http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/4345-agm-charging

    The reference temperature is really 77 degrees F  --  25 C.

    Do you have a Link to the detailed specs,  and Owner's (User) Manual for your present Charger?   It would be useful for any of those trying to render some help.

    Generally AGM batteries have shorter lives in Cyclic use than do Flooded batteries.  AND,  the life of batteries in most RVs can be quite short,  especially when exposed to high temperatures for extended periods.

    FWIW.  Steve at Surrette Battery has worked in the Solar industry for a long time,  having been at Outback Power for a number of years.   He has made significant improvements to the Surrette Documentation,  and Tech Support.   Hope that you will be able to let him help you ...   Thanks,   Vic

    I had the link in April. I set the charge parameters based on the chart at the bottom.

     I was hoping to talk to someone that would run through the system with me so I could try a series of solutions. I am disappointed that it did not happen with Steve.  Afterward my call I called and spoke with Jeff at Rolls. That call went much better. At the end of the call I thanked Jeff and said I appreciated his help.   
       
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    jtbuilds said:
    Yesterday we charged the batteries (using the temp sensor) for 6 hours @ 15.2V bulk and 14.1 float.  Five minutes after disconnecting the charger the voltage was 13.0V
    This 7:15AM this morning the resting voltage was 12.82V.
    The 12amp light bar was connected (nothing else connected to the batteries) and the voltage dropped to 12.33V.
    1 hour later the voltage was 12.32V
    2 hours later the voltage was 12.25V
    3 hours later the voltage was 12.16V
    3 1/2 hours later the voltage was 12.09V - the light bar was disconnected
    4 1/2 hours later with no load on the batteries the voltage was 12.32V














    John,    Just to cover all the bases put your multi-meter's amp gauge between the battery pos and the lamp bar power lead.      Keep it right at the battery end of the wire.     It will only take 10 minutes and you never know, there could be a small short somewhere increasing your load.

    Hi , Thanks

    The wires to the lamp are 2' long.....at  the battery post the reading is 12.2A - 12.4A.

    John

  • WaterWheelWaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016 #16
    So you pulled about 43 amp/hrs during the 3.5 hr test or about 17% of the available energy from the fully charged battery (assuming the battery bank started with 250 amp/hrs  rated potential).

    How long after the charge ended did you measure the resting voltage?

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭

    John noted,  "I had the link in April. I set the charge parameters based on the chart at the bottom.

     I was hoping to talk to someone that would run through the system with me so I could try a series of solutions. I am disappointed that it did not happen with Steve.  Afterward my call I called and spoke with Jeff at Rolls. That call went much better. At the end of the call I thanked Jeff and said I appreciated his help".

    Hi John,

    Glad that you found Jeff helpful.  Surrette has always been very helpful to me,  and they really have no axe to grind,  IMO,  just to try to help customers as much as they can,  to keep us happy,  and coming back for more of their products.

    Still some of those pending Questions  ...

    QUESTION:

      1.  Do you have,  and use an accurate DMM to,  at least confirm the accuracy of whatever voltmeter you are using,  when you mention voltage readings?

      2.  Can you provide a Link to the User Manual for the charger that is presently charging these AGMs?

      Thanks for the answers.

    AND,  just to reiterate,  Would guess that Rolls  (Surrette)  was not saying that you should always use those high voltage settings,  but just to try to fully-charge the batteries,  and then revert to the standard charge specs.

    Also,  Your charger may not have the ability to set the proper Temperature Compensation value,  but for your Surrettes,  this should be --4 mV/cell/C,  or,  -- 24 mV per degree C for the entire 6-cell bank.

    Plus,   when mentioning voltage measurements,  knowing the temperature of the battery when those measurements were taken would help.

    Am sure  that you realize,  that voltage measurements can be very misleading,  because battery voltage depends upon loads present at the time of measurement,  as well as loads that the battery has supplied in the previous few hours.   And,  of course any charge that is present on the batteries at that time,  or in the previous few hours,   as well as temperature effects,  and so on.

    I do hope that you can confirm the accuracy of your shorepower charger's voltage settings.

    FWIW,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    So you pulled about 43 amp/hrs during the 3.5 hr test or about 17% of the available energy from the fully charged battery (assuming the battery bank still holds 250 amp/hrs).

    How long after the charge ended did you measure the resting voltage?

    Charge ended at 4:45pm.  Resting voltage 16 hours later was 12.82V


  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭

    John said,
    "Charge ended at 4:45pm.  Resting voltage 16 hours later was 12.82V"

    So this is the voltage with a 16 hour Rest?  Resting voltage is when a battery has had absolutely NO charge,  and absolutely NO discharge for a number of hours.   A 16 hour Rest should be fine,  just as long at the above no charge/no discharge parameters have been met.

    What was the battery temperature when that 12.84 V reading was taken,  do you suppose?

    Thanks,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Vic said:

    John said,
    "Charge ended at 4:45pm.  Resting voltage 16 hours later was 12.82V"

    So this is the voltage with a 16 hour Rest?  Resting voltage is when a battery has had absolutely NO charge,  and absolutely NO discharge for a number of hours.   A 16 hour Rest should be fine,  just as long at the above no charge/no discharge parameters have been met.

    What was the battery temperature when that 12.84 V reading was taken,  do you suppose?

    Thanks,   Vic

    Hi Vic

    Resting for 16 hours no charge, no discharge.  Batteries are sitting out on a bench and the ambient temp was/is 58F-60F.

    I posted the info on the charger and answers some of you question about 8-9 post back.

    Thanks for problem solving this with me!

    John
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭✭
    jtbuilds said:
    I'm in the process of building a 1.0Kw - 1.56Kw solar system for our new RV. 
    What are you using right now to charge the batteries?
    jtbuilds said:
    Once I resolve the battery issue I will be buying a Midnight Classic 150 with the Whizbang Jr.
    When you get to that point, start a new thread... The Classic is a great controller, but in an RV you might want a sealed, fanless design.  Two or three midnite Kids might make a good substitute and give you greater flexibility and shade-tolerating capacity. 

    What sort of string voltages do you plan to use?  Your array will be pushing the limits for a classic in a 12 volt system, and if your string voltages are high the controller will have its fans screaming all the time.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016 #22

    OH,  Sorry John,

    Our posts crossed,  and had not seen that 1:05 PM Post.  err,  I mean Comment,   Thanks,

    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Vic said:

    OH,  Sorry John,

    Our posts crossed,  and had not seen that 1:05 PM Post.  err,  I mean Comment,   Thanks,

    Vic


    Not having post numbers make things difficult to keep track of
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi John,

    Yep,  Post numbers would be nice,  and believe that this is on the want list,  for added features.

    So,  that Pronautic 50 charger  allows setting the Absorb and Float voltages in steps of 0.1 volts?

    Thanks,     Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,911 admin
    We are still "rattling" Vanilla's support team for a quote on the project. We are planning on getting that "upgrade" unless it ridiculously expensive.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    We are still "rattling" Vanilla's support team for a quote on the project. We are planning on getting that "upgrade" unless it ridiculously expensive.
    Please be sure that a post cannot be completely deleted if there has been another post after it.  In other words, they can delete all the text, but the post would still exist as a number.  for examples,  "post #7 deleted by user" or "post #5 deleted by moderator".

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,911 admin
    Unfortunately, having "archived" post numbers is going to be too expensive and complex for them to implement (and all of the merge/delete threads/discussions permutations). The post numbering will be "dynamic" (i.e., the numbering will be based on the thread/discussion displayed at that moment).

    I delete so few posts in the middle of a discussion (hardly any a day or two later)--That it should not confuse anyone very often (almost never, my guess). If I miss a post number reference, somebody can always make a post and I will edit/fix in old post.

    As an aside.. .I would have been OK if they would have "fixed" time/date for post ID. Currently, they go from "time" (posts less than 1 day old) to "date" to month over a few days (posts over a few days old simply say June 2016). Turns out that "fix" is "a lot" more expensive/complex fix than "dynamic" post numbering. I sometimes wonder if software engineers ever use their own product... :p

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As soon as a software engineer uses the product, they redesign and everyone has to start from scratch :D
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • jtbuildsjtbuilds Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited June 2016 #29
    Vic said:

    Hi John,

    Yep,  Post numbers would be nice,  and believe that this is on the want list,  for added features.

    So,  that Pronautic 50 charger  allows setting the Absorb and Float voltages in steps of 0.1 volts?

    Thanks,     Vic

    Hi Vic

    Yes, the Pronautic settings are steps of 0.1V

    First 3 charges it was set at 14.7V bulk and 13.8V float @ 70F ambient

    Next 6 charges it was set at 14.9v bulk and 13.9V float @ 72F ambient

    Next 3 charges now with the temp sensor it was 14.9V bulk and 14.0V float @ 60F ambient

    Last charge (Thursday) with temp sensor it was set at 15.2V bulk and 14.1V float @ 60F ambient

    Removing 36Ah (29% of the 50% capacity) over 3 hours from the batteries brings the voltage down to 12.1V @ 60F ambient

    John
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016 #30
    jtbuilds said:
    Vic said:

    Hi John,

    Yep,  Post numbers would be nice,  and believe that this is on the want list,  for added features.

    So,  that Pronautic 50 charger  allows setting the Absorb and Float voltages in steps of 0.1 volts?

    Thanks,     Vic

    Hi Vic

    Yes, the Pronautic settings are steps of 0.1V

    First 3 charges it was set at 14.7V bulk and 13.8V float @ 70F ambient

    Next 6 charges it was set at 14.9v bulk and 13.9V float @ 72F ambient

    Next 3 charges now with the temp sensor it was 14.9V bulk and 14.0V float @ 60F ambient

    Last charge (Thursday) with temp sensor it was set at 15.2V bulk and 14.1V float @ 60F ambient

    Removing 36Ah (29% of the 50% capacity) over 3 hours from the batteries brings the voltage down to 12.1V @ 60F ambient

    John

    Hi John,

    Thanks for the info on the Pronautic charger setability.

    OH,  and your guess was correct,  that DMM WAS a meter.  Almost spelled it out,  but got lazy.
    Digital MultiMeter (DMM).

    AND,  I whimper a bit about this Forum software.   BUT,  as I read it,  the main reason that this (Vanilla) Forum software was chosen,  is that it was one of the very few reasonable options,  that would preserve the tens-of-thousands of Historic posts,  that  Moderators a few thousand users had labored over for many tens of thousands of hours.

    So,  if this is approximately accurate,    preserving the old posts   ...   errr,  Comments,  and Discussions was well worth it,  IMO. 

    Sorry for my griping on occasion.  Thanks BB Bill Wind-Sun,  and the myriad of members here  for this still-fine Forum.    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,911 admin
    Yes, Vanilla had good user reviews, and is hosted/managed by Vanilla (old forum software was hosted and managed by NAWS, with some help from VBB). Apparently VBB kept "improving" the software until nobody liked the present versions (and we could not go back to a few year old version).

    And the other Vanilla reason for choice, was as you surmized Vic, that they would preserve the old posts/threads.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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