this past nov and dec daily sun hours for toronto?

mike49
mike49 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
Just wondering if there any Greater Toronto Area Canada veteran solar folks here or perhaps long time Toronto microFit folks?

Could I ask if this past Nov and Dec sun hours have been typical for sun hours compared to previous years?
I wasn't measuring daily, but anecdotally it seemed to me this past Nov and Dec were terrible and way below supposedly 2 sun hours/day avg solar insolation?  Seems like most days were cloudy no sun at all and only one or two days a week with a few sun hours in total per week...

Is all this gloominess unique to Super El Nino? January is seems slightly better so far but still not really much sun...

If anyone has been measuring I'd be interested to know what actual sun hours per day you've been getting for Nov, Dec, Jan and compared to previous years and where abouts in Greater Toronto Area you are, thanks!

small hobby/learning system in Toronto, Canada:
3x100w parallel via 30A PWM to old 12v car battery to 200w inverter for shed LED lights
(1x100w may-sept)

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    edited January 2016 #2
    I found a general weather history data set for Canada (in general):

    http://climate.weather.gc.ca/index_e.html#access

    Includes temperature, snow on ground, heat/cool index, etc... But I did not find hours of sun here.

    This one may help... But you will have to follow up on how to find/download the data:

    http://climate.weather.gc.ca/prods_servs/documentation_index_e.html

    This from NASA may also give you useful solar radiation history:

    http://power.larc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/solar/building.cgi?na

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    nov solar 99.1 82 139 136.5 144.2 154 114 111 121.6 84 133.2























    dec solar 81.9 82 69 89 128 102.6 78 69 80 67 61.6














    Numbers pulled from spreadsheet for the last 11 years.  Nov, not so bad, Dec the worst of the 11 years.  I noticed it on the microFit payment too...in the basement.

    Ralph
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    We are over in Green Bay and this is the worst December of the last 8 years, probably more than that, but that is far back as I have data with this system.  Funny since it was warmer, but cloudy as heck...  Now that it has gotten colder and clear we are seeing the light  ;)
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    This is my 5th year of record keeping. I have had as much as a 20% production swing over the years during the months of Nov - March. Lot's of variables, frost, snow, rain, clouds.
  • mike49
    mike49 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited January 2016 #6
    Bill: thanks for the links, that NASA one looks very interesting with it's daily data, will be interesting to read into out how they "derive" the data from satellites when I get a chance, interesting stuff...

    Ralph: does your numbers mean november = ~99 total sun hours (so avg = 3.3 sun hours a day?)
    and december = ~89 total sun hours (so avg=2.9 sun hours a day?) that seems pretty good?
    or are those total daylight hours? thanks :)

    Ralph/Brock: thanks for confirming my suspicion that this past December was as bad as it gets and not typical, so there is some hope for better sun hours next year :)

    Blackcherry: funny you mention snow, now that we're in January with more sun but with more typical winter conditions, the freezing rain and snow in past few days has my small panels all covered with ice that I can't get off, so really fun stuff trying to do solar in the winter :)
    Good thing I'm only playing with solar for learning/hobby, I hope you microFit folks don't lose out too much this winter, and it must be really tough for the totally off-grid folks this winter...
    small hobby/learning system in Toronto, Canada:
    3x100w parallel via 30A PWM to old 12v car battery to 200w inverter for shed LED lights
    (1x100w may-sept)
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    mike49 said:
    this past December was as bad as it gets
    <snip>
    and it must be really tough for the totally off-grid folks this winter...
    December was the first time I had to change the oil in my generator twice in one month  --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Numbers as logged on OB MX60.  Logging starts at dawn, goes till dusk, but the "shoulder" times don't add up to much.  Sorry, the numbers get messed up looking when transferred from the spreadsheet to the forum.

    Ralph
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    mike49, yes this year is also worse for ice and then snow on the panels.  Over the years if I know it will be sunny after a snow (and it usually is) I drag the snow on the panels with an old 24 foot pool brush.  I have found that if you get the majority of the snow off and then it gets sunny the sun will take car of the ice since the panels are dark.  But if I leave them snow covered they will stay that way.  Most of my panels will not stay covered in snow but one bank sits in just the right place for the wind to make a snowdrift across them and they are raised about 1 foot on the low end and 3 on the high end to get the tilt but still are covered in about a 2 foot drift.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • mike49
    mike49 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited January 2016 #10
    Brock said:
    Over the years if I know it will be sunny after a snow (and it usually is) I drag the snow on the panels with an old 24 foot pool brush.  I have found that if you get the majority of the snow off and then it gets sunny the sun will take car of the ice since the panels are dark.  But if I leave them snow covered they will stay that way. 
    Hey that works! I broomed the snow off last night and today I checked on my panels after work and the thick sheet of ice that was covering them has mostly melted off. Very nice, so there is some hope of solar production in winter, just higher maintenance :) 
    small hobby/learning system in Toronto, Canada:
    3x100w parallel via 30A PWM to old 12v car battery to 200w inverter for shed LED lights
    (1x100w may-sept)
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Really if they were tilted more it would be less of a problem, mine are at about 45*, 60* would be better for winter, for snow and correct tilt, but it works.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Have some at 60* and it is still not as good as the ones at 70*
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • arby
    arby Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    I previously read a guy on the off grid forum who put his panels straight up and down for the winter. With reflection off the snow and clean panels he said he was way ahead.
    3310 watts panels, Classic 200 controller, 8 Surette S530's, Xantrex 5548 inverter, Honda EX5500 backup Genny.
  • mike49
    mike49 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    I've had mine at 80* since december simply because the sun was that low and that angle seemed close to perpendicular to the sun on the rare days that the sun was fully shining and it seemed to give me the most current. Now I'm getting the side benefit of ice and snow sliding off easily after melting abit. So I guess I'm on the right track with 80* now I know there may be 3rd added bonus of reflected light from the snow :)
    small hobby/learning system in Toronto, Canada:
    3x100w parallel via 30A PWM to old 12v car battery to 200w inverter for shed LED lights
    (1x100w may-sept)
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Isn't it your latitude +15 for winter and -15 for summer?
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • mike49
    mike49 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited January 2016 #16
    Ya, by the "book" (link below) I believe it's supposed to be +15 winter -15 summer (ie ~60 and ~30) for toronto for south facing, but I was going by "eyeballing" the sun position at noon in december and tilted it to 80 to get perpendicular to the sun since I was getting desperate to get the most sun, then I just left it that way until now, I guess I should eyeball it again :) In the summer it's supposed to be -15, but I when I was "eyeballing" it, I decided to keep it at 45 near latitude. Fun learning/experimenting...

    http://pv.nrcan.gc.ca/index.php?n=1752&m=u&lang=e

    edit: had some nice rare sunny periods today, seems like the sun is higher than a month ago ;), me thinks 60 should be about right, but I went with 70 since I like this thing about ice and snow easily sliding off, less maintenance :) 
    small hobby/learning system in Toronto, Canada:
    3x100w parallel via 30A PWM to old 12v car battery to 200w inverter for shed LED lights
    (1x100w may-sept)