MilBay of Australia LiFePO4 battery representative Q&A

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Comments

  • MilbayAus
    MilbayAus Registered Users Posts: 16
    @westbranch Milbay chose total system control with remote management capabilities as anything less would have been a compromise. Milbay LiFePO4 2.4kWh power storage modules are the result of more than 10 years development since commercialisation began around 2002 and incorporate the well proven developments in management technology as our Chinese hi tech manufacturer holds many patents in this sector.

    The scope for Milbay Power storage solutions is not limited to household use so future proofing for emerging integrations and backwards compatibility was a criteria for our power storage project team.

    Our battery management system has been proven over many years of infield deployment to deliver predicted and reliable outcomes.
    Cell balancing for Milbay liFePO4 storage modules begins at production level Quality Assurance. Each cell is then managed within the 2.4kWh battery module, Current is delivered to the storage module from the charge controller then the battery module BMS takes over control in an intelligent manner constantly monitoring, adjusting and caring for the LiFePO4 cells.

    The Milbay modular design provides consistency in every aspect of the overall power storage solution. The precision built metal cabinets that house the module's internal components evolved through development and in field evaluation. The module design incorporates  many safety and reliability aspects to delivery a no maintenance long lasting power storage system for the 21st century.

  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    OK so don't answer the question... those of us that have discussed this charging paradigm have specific reasons for choosing one or the other. An  impertinent answer to  this simple query drops you from my potential list, sorry...

     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • MilbayAus
    MilbayAus Registered Users Posts: 16
    @westbranch you are thinking of basic non intelligent systems being built by individuals not commercially available production solutions.
    The question of top or bottom balance is that our management system caters to both, The information is provided in the storage user manual that end users receive but it is not really relevant to the majority as the Milbay solution is a set and forget system. The reason Milbay undertook to development of such a user and installer friendly solution was so that years of technical knowledge are not required by end users to make purchase decisions. Questions about 3.6 or 3.65V only confuses the consumer and has little relevance in overall solution design or long term performance. 

    Top charge is just one of the many design considerations incorporated into Milbay battery storage modules however what remains paramount and relevant is capacity, recharge current and discharge current.
    Milbay guarantee the capacity and charge current and discharge currents are relevant only to the solar installer.

    @westbranch If you are a solar installer or distributor then please contact Milbay sales@milbay.com.au and we will be happy to answer proprietary technical questions in a confidential environment.

    Milbay Australia do not supply our 2.4kWh battery modules to the public, Australian purchase is via the Solar component distribution or solar installer supply chain.


  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    I would suspect top balanced.  At least for all their toy UTV's, hoverboards, unicycles, etc:

    http://www.milbay.com.au/Li/FAQ

    Ordinarily, one doesn't have to recharge lifepo4 after every use as theirs do, unless a balancing board was doing a vampire slow drain.  One of the very reasons to go lifepo4 is to NOT have to keep them "topped up".

    At any rate, the ONLY thing we'll get from this thread is continuous free advertising for secretive products.  There is no give and take - just take.  We're done.


  • MilbayAus
    MilbayAus Registered Users Posts: 16
    edited January 2016 #36
    @PNjunction maybe you have confused small scale Lithium ion products like those from the Milbay personal transport product line and the Milbay Solar Storage product line. Milbay utilise Lithium Ion 18650 technology for small or mobile solutions, for larger capacity transport like our 7.2kWh 5kW 72 Volt UTV, electric chariots (aka Segway) and fixed storage solutions Milbay exclusively use LiFePO4 solutions. 
    I have not heard the MB-572UTV electric 4WD described as a toy before :) Maybe you have not looked at the dimensions of the UTV as it is a full sized vehicle which out performs combustion equivalents in the UTV/ATV class. http://www.milbay.com.au/CustomerViews/UTV 

    The challenge that Milbay Australia team set themselves was to deliver a user friendly solar storage solution that would meet the current and future needs of Australian households which Milbay have delivered and released as the Milbay LiFePO4 2.4kWh 48V  modular storage.
    The criteria was
    Safety.
    Easy user interface and monitoring.
    Easy installation.
    Long life.
    A redundant modular design.
    10 year warranty to match most inverters.
    Backwards compatibility with existing installations
    Compatibility with intelligent Hybrid inverters.
    Remote management ability.

    All these criteria have been met successfully with the release of the Modular 2.4kWh 48V solar storage product line. In February/March Milbay will release a modular LiFePO4 solution for 12V systems.

    There are many forum topics already in which hobby enthusiast debate the finer details of LiFePO4 chemistry generally.

    Perhaps an explanation as to why particular technical information is being sought may provide some scope or relevance for more specific answers.

    Some consumers may indeed wish to build their own solutions and accept their own level of risk, however for the vast majority of consumers a commercially available purpose built LiFePO4 solution such as the Milbay modular design that is ready for installation is most desireable.


    Neale Gray
    Milbay Australia 

  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016 #37
    Looks like all your going to get is a Marketing pitch. You have to look at this concept like a pre paid lease with one up front payment. It'll only be as good as the warranty from Milbay and the biggest problem will be with the Installer / Dealer. Once they get tired of dealing with issues, you'll be up the creek and the Marketing guy will be nowhere to be found and you'll be sitting in the dark.

    A lot of consumers like doing business this way, I always tell people that I have never owned a car, I am just using this one till the next one is delivered. The nuts and bolts and ownership is left to someone else.

    I'd hire a attorney and nail everything down in the sales contract, put a big forfeiture in it for non fulfillment, it's too late once everything heads south. Shipping failed units back and forth won't be cheap, + service calls. 

  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    and the biggest problem will be with the Installer / Dealer.
    Absolutely true.  I wouldn't touch the system if the dealer didn't have an excellent reputation.
    Until the sponsor of this forum endorses your product, I’ll put these posts into the ‘free advertising’ circular file
    If NAWS distributed it, that would satisfy my requirement for a dealer with an excellent reputation

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • MilbayAus
    MilbayAus Registered Users Posts: 16
    @vtmaps NAWS is very welcome to contact Milbay about distribution of our LiFePO4 storage modules.

    Please understand in Australia it is only qualified solar installers that have the authority to install 48V solar system components.

    this topic is available so Milbay Australia can answer any relevant questions about Milbay LiFePO4 modular solar storage. The great leap forward in user friendly, no maintenance, modular, expandable battery storage.

    For installer and distributor sales contact sales@milby.com.au located in Queensland Australia.

    Neale Gray
    Milbay Australia 
  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016 #40

     NAWS is very welcome to contact Milbay about distribution of our LiFePO4 storage modules.


    Seeings as how you are peddling your wares on their website, it should be you contacting them.
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016 #42
    How many Midbay offgrid homes and how long please?
     My cost for a 24V, 26 KWH flooded battery is $ 3,600 US, how does this compare?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • MilbayAus
    MilbayAus Registered Users Posts: 16
    @Dave Angelini  Hi Dave please email sales@milbay.com.au and advise your location so that Milbay can provide an accurate replacement system for you, If you know your actually kWh daily use and your current PV capabilities that also would be helpful.

    The upfront cost will be higher than lead acid however over all TCO will be lower.

    Location will allow us to investigate your daylight hours.

    Regards,
    Neale Gray
    Milbay Australia
  • MilbayAus
    MilbayAus Registered Users Posts: 16
    edited January 2016 #44
     There seems there is some interest in the hoverboard battery failure story which is understandable given the huge media coverage.
    I looked for a forum topic but could only find recreational vehicles so maybe this post should go there ?

    Firstly Milbay Australia had NO exposure to the "hoverboard disaster" as we are professionals in compliance and quality assurance as well as self balance technology so the eventual outcome was easy to predict.

    I was just as amazed as everybody else when otherwise responsible corporate retailers seemed to forget about quality assurance, safety and compliance. I believe it resulted from a lack of technical expertise in the procurement departments of the retailers. Milbay had actually contacted some of the retailers now involved in recalls however it appears they went it alone or for the lowest price. 

    There are completely different quality levels available at every aspect of a product manufacture and in the new borderless consumer paradigm this was ignored as a level of the supply chain was removed and consumers traded direct with local chinese suppliers who simply delivered a cheaper and cheaper price as was requested by the consumer. Laying blame is difficult however it was at the Chinese end of the "hoverboard" supply chain where the financial pain was felt most.

    In short: a device that sells for less than the price of a reliable Lithium Ion battery system will obviously not have a safe and reliable battery which is the heart of all these devices.

    Consumer pressure pushed the device into very low price low quality and the low cost versions appeared about September 2015.

    In a race to the bottom and a disregard for quality assurance and compliance the rest of the story will continue to unfold, in china however the hoverboard is finished and the financial survivors have already released the next new self balance product which is a skateboard platform and single (unicycle style) wheel, this time feet at the front and back. I wonder will any lessons have been learnt as there is version that uses the same 36V Li battery pack as the hoverboard. This battery pack is as safe as any lithium battery pack if built to correct standards which is very easy to achieve in a simple small 150Wh 18650 cell battery pack as many on this forum would be aware.

    Neale Gray
    Milbay Australia


  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    MilbayAus said:
     Milbay utilise Lithium Ion 18650 technology for small or mobile solutions, for larger capacity transport like our 7.2kWh 5kW 72 Volt UTV, electric chariots (aka Segway) and fixed storage solutions Milbay exclusively use LiFePO4 solutions.

    PNjunction says:
    You know that "18650 technology" is merely a reference to a size right, and not a specific chemistry.  You may want to specify if you are using LiCo02 for 18650 or not.  Not really clear, but then I'm not interested in the toys.

    And those LiFeP04 solutions are what exactly?  I sure hope to heaven that you are using 26650's and not 18650's, which would be ridiculous.

    Here is the standard you have to meet for any serious motive-power product.  FULL specifications!

    http://www.a123systems.com/lithium-ion-cells-26650-cylindrical-cell.htm

    Yet, if one looks further, for OUR solar storage needs, while these cells are excellent, they are over the top with performance characteristics we'll never use!  We don't need motive-power cells for a non motive power application!

    Personally, I'd stick to your main line of toys.  Perhaps even venture into the E-Cig vaping market.



  • MilbayAus
    MilbayAus Registered Users Posts: 16
    Below is Milbay Australia LiFePO4 2.4kWh 48V power storage module available NOW.
    More information 
    http://www.milbay.com.au/Li/SolarHome


    Below is a 48kWh (useable) LifePO4 storage solution using LiFePO4 2.4kWh storage modules with remote management station.
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Seems like this thread has gone beyond the marginally Informational to straight out advertising.
  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    Seems like this thread has gone beyond the marginally Informational to straight out advertising.

    Couldn't agree more BC04
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    Ok.... this is not really moving the discussion forwards.

    Closing.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
This discussion has been closed.